careful

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  13

  JW Ranking System

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's fairly evident to little old outsider me that the organisation has a class system, perhaps even a caste system.. from what i've read, there seems to not only be an official ranking system (m.s., elder, c.o.

  ) but an unofficial one.

  has anyone ever sat down to figure out what the unofficial ranks are and how they affect the pecking order?

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  careful

  Earnest: "I can only speak of the congregation I attended at the time, but they were all elderly people and were treated with respect but nothing more."

  My experiences were quite different. If someone from outside of the cong. was going to meet one of the professed anointed old timers, there was plenty of pre-discussion of the sort that no one else got. In one cong. one bro. on the BOE was professed anointed and he was regularly deferred to by all, not just at Memorial time. In another cong. I attended for one summer in the 1970s there was an old elder ("other sheep") who told me about a younger bro. who had begun partaking of the emblems. The elder thought it was terrible "since being of the real anointed is such a sacred thing." He felt this young bro. was blaspheming—no joke. He probably would have brought up judicial charges on him if he could have! Naturally he put those he felt were really anointed (pre-1935 baptism criterion at that time) on quite a pedestal.
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  51

  Interesting that the other cult-cousins are going thru nearly identical hemmoraging of members.....

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i still read on reddit.

  (though no longer post) occasionally, i'll venture over to the ex-seventh day adventist (sda) sub and catch up a bit.

  it's been a long time.

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  careful

  Some examples from non-Witness land:

  https://currentpub.com/2024/03/05/big-changes-at-trinity-international-university-trinity-evangelical-divinity-school-and-the-evangelical-free-church/

  https://kanahoma.substack.com/p/the-christian-college-crisis
  

  https://www.sdpb.org/education/2023-01-23/longterm-issues-to-close-doors-at-presentation-college

  https://cincyjewfolk.com/2024/04/19/how-to-close-a-campus-huc-jir-bleeds-money-while-cincinnati-pays-the-price/

  The church/synagogue/congregation members are simply not there to financially support the old program anymore. The youth are leaving; older ones are dying off; their worlds are shrinking.
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  26

  What was covered up in your congregation??

  by karter in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  family move to remote pacific island to serve were the need is great get a mention in the year book.. however one of the (married) boys in the large family has sex with his sister while his wife is in hospital giving birth to their child.

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  all hushed up not even a word said and hes now an elder d.fing people for lesser crimes.. young couple dating leave the jws and move in togather doing drugs partying ect.. his family grandfather,uncles, dad ect are all elders.. after a few years they decide to come back to the jws and are married in the k.h a few months latter.. 1 elder questions them getting married in the k.h and is voted down by his family.. to many drunks and c.s.a to mention.. karter..

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  careful

  Well, there were these two really nice, quite large, wall murals, one running the entire right side of the main hall and one running the entire left. One had that pretty bizarre wheel-within-a-wheel image from the Ezekiel vision (all shiny and sparkly from the "glow of burnished copper," "the sparkle of awesome ice," gemstones, "the appearance of fire all around," etc.), the other, a big picture of life in the new order with the typical happy people, in modern dress (of course!), playing with animals. The sister who created both put many hours, many days really, into painting them. Both were quite bright and made the KH stand out. Indeed, the hall was requested by Witnesses from elsewhere for weddings because of the unique decor of these pictures. The publishers loved them. Otherwise the KH was a pretty much a dull hall, like most of them.

  Then when they remodeled the KH, these murals were covered over. I complained to the elder who really ran the show about losing them. When I asked why, I was told, "We wouldn't want anyone being stumbled over them." Guess who was stumbled over "covering up" the pics? The sister who painted them! She dropped out entirely as she was already struggling with little kids and an opposing husband, and a very opposing and powerful-in-the-greater-community mother. I guess it was just too much for her.
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  13

  JW Ranking System

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's fairly evident to little old outsider me that the organisation has a class system, perhaps even a caste system.. from what i've read, there seems to not only be an official ranking system (m.s., elder, c.o.

  ) but an unofficial one.

  has anyone ever sat down to figure out what the unofficial ranks are and how they affect the pecking order?

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  careful

  There are various unofficial rankings. In a recent letter leaked by Atlantis elders who were designated "able to handle complex matters" or some such term were to be listed by the CO. Obviously they would be used for appeal committees, special committees, etc. These often are the same ones chosen for parts on the circuit assemblies and regional meetings too. They have more status than regular elders who cannot "handle complex matters."

  Many large cities have one bro. designated as "city overseer." It's played down officially and he's really there to help out with assemblies and conventions, but I knew one well and he was called upon all the time by HQ when special needs arose. The point is that when he spoke out as just a regular elder, everyone knew he was more than that: "Bro. Smith is the city overseer." "Oh, really!" "Yeah." "Oh, I've got meet him!"

  If you hang out in different congs or travel around visiting them, you see certain ex-missionaries, ex-COs, past Bethelites, and current or past special pioneers, and these ones have more status/stature/standing than regular members do.

  Finally, "the anointed" receive quite exceptional status, with a real aura surrounding them. It used to be more so when there were those who went back to Russell's or Rutherford's time, but they're pretty much gone now. I'm not quite sure today how those who claim to be among the elect are viewed since there's so much doubt cast upon their really having validity as anointed, but among non-claiming cong. members those who buy into their claim, they will be on a huge pedestal.

  Hope this helps.
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  19

  Is There Some Sort of Campaign Going on?

  by NotFormer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a pair of young blokes came to my door @ 10am (ish) today (wednesday, if that matters).

  i opened the door a crack to : hi!

  just asking a question: do you think that the world is getting better or worse?*".

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  careful

  notformer,

  Funny observation on the preaching during Covid. I guess the safety of members getting ill trumped possible in-person contact in the ministry.

  In answer to your "Does D2D result in conversions any more? Even twenty years ago it was not looking like a very effective use of time," that's a fascinating question. Traditionally one factor has been the socio-economic area where the preaching takes place. A lower-class area has had a much better rate of "Bible studies"/conversions than a middle- or upper-class neighborhood. But even in those poorer areas, conversions has slowed greatly or even died out since the GB dictators decided to quash the emphasis on getting into conversations, and just tell the "faithful" to direct people to the WTS website. Now it is slowly dawning the GBers that it's time to go back to imitating Jesus and the first Christians in personally speaking to people, acting in a human-to-human manner.

  Again, DUUUHHHHH.
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  51

  Interesting that the other cult-cousins are going thru nearly identical hemmoraging of members.....

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i still read on reddit.

  (though no longer post) occasionally, i'll venture over to the ex-seventh day adventist (sda) sub and catch up a bit.

  it's been a long time.

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  careful

  So are SDA numbers up overall? If so, to what should that be attributed? Enrollment stats at their universities might be telling, as might the number of their congs.
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  51

  Interesting that the other cult-cousins are going thru nearly identical hemmoraging of members.....

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i still read on reddit.

  (though no longer post) occasionally, i'll venture over to the ex-seventh day adventist (sda) sub and catch up a bit.

  it's been a long time.

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  careful

  SBF, Nov. 2023 was "during the pandemic"? On what planet was that?
• 
  19

  Is There Some Sort of Campaign Going on?

  by NotFormer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a pair of young blokes came to my door @ 10am (ish) today (wednesday, if that matters).

  i opened the door a crack to : hi!

  just asking a question: do you think that the world is getting better or worse?*".

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  careful

  In the past year I've seen them out d2d at least twice in different neighborhoods, and came home to a convention invite on my porch a few weeks ago. I also see them in parks and downtown with their carts, probably 4-5 times in the past year---for what that personal testimony's worth.

  But the most recent leaked info from Atlantis has the GB dictators stating they want to go back to the traditional d2d methods most of us were used to when we were in. Evidently, they finally figured out that the lack of "Bible studies" they have been suffering from stems from them having nearly abandoned that traditional work of getting into conversations with people, and instead just stressing going to their website. The latter has just hasn't panned out for conversions.

  DUUUHHHHHHHHHH.
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  51

  Interesting that the other cult-cousins are going thru nearly identical hemmoraging of members.....

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i still read on reddit.

  (though no longer post) occasionally, i'll venture over to the ex-seventh day adventist (sda) sub and catch up a bit.

  it's been a long time.

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  2. 
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  careful

  I was speaking with a middle-of-the-road Evangelical scholar from one of their "more prestigious" colleges about dwindling numbers in that camp, their closing schools, and the youth not staying. We also talked about Reform/Progressive Judaism (liberals), as well as liberal Protestants. ALL of them are suffering from a drainage of young people not staying in these traditions that they were raised in. It's really hurting such groups in the wallet.

  The one exception this chap pointed out was the hard-core right-wing Evangelicals, pro-Trump groups who think they can "save America" (= adopt by-gone morality and standards), a different sort of fantasy. That's not likely to continue. Perhaps a sort of last gasp from the Evangelicals?

  It looks like it's happening all over Western culture. What occurred in N. Europe a couple of decades after WW II is happening in America and Canada now. There's no turning back the clock. SBF has been pointing this out for some time. It will be interesting to see if this trend takes hold in Latin America, a place where traditionally SDAs, Mormons, Evangelicals, and JWs have had real growth in the past.

  It would be interesting if we could somehow get the "real story" behind those few youths in these groups, JWs and others, who stay in, at least nominally. Are they mainly brain-dead or so absent of critical thinking that this is the only sanctuary for them? Are their needs for safety and security so acutely basic that they must cling to these traditions that they were raised in? Are many/most who stay just faking it in order to keep family happy? That last group cannot keep that going for long. Their true feelings will eventually come out.

  Thanks for the post, WC. It's a sure trend that will only keep going on in one direction, toward secularism.
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  12

  Russia: Further Jail Term For Answering Fellow Prisoners’ Questions About Faith

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.eurasiareview.com/01072024-russia-further-jail-term-for-answering-fellow-prisoners-questions-about-faith/.

  july 1, 2024. by f18news.

  by victoria arnold.

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  careful

  Putin's paranoia seems to have no bounds. Meanwhile millions suffer from his unmitigated egotism, including Dmitry Terebilov.

  Thanks for the post.