careful

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Posts by careful

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  49

  Dissenters in Watchtower History: Differing Departures

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.

  through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.

  fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.

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  careful

  Yes, Penton and Jonsson are important.

  Here's another non-American example that I recall reading about in the old KH library when I'd escape from the deadening meetings, duck inside, and read the old lit. There was a guy in the early days of the WTS history in Taiwan who was put in charge locally there (maybe under Rutherford?) but who had a falling out with the WTS HQ in NY, was removed as branch servant (or whatever they called it then), but took the vast majority of Witnesses there with him. Something like 90% of the active Witnesses there followed the guy for years. WTS growth in Taiwan suffered for decades. It was almost nil for that long. Once Gilead got going, they kept funneling missionaries in there but with no real effect. All this was written up in one of the old yearbooks from the 70s or thereabouts. I suppose that WTS growth has finally taken off there now, but the guy's effect was huge for a long time. In numbers it's probably more significant than the Bottings or Bill Cetnar.

  Another name to ponder perhaps is musician Frank Kavelin, long-time big name elder in Los Angeles whose dad was tight with GB I. The son used to go to NY to conduct the WTS orchestra for assembly and other recordings. I don't know, however, of any big influence he's had in getting others to leave...

  His story:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/180011/dncall-unmasked-part-1-5?page=1
  

  My two cents.

  Glad to see you back and posting SBF! Bedazzle us with your intelligent contributions like you used to.
  
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  33

  Video: "Iron Sharpens Iron"

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joehewofiba.

  is this supposed to placate the ones who have been recently fired?

  is this a sign of the aging jw leadership?

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  careful

  Or it it just that they are all hardliners and such people are generally unhappy and rarely smile?
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  33

  Video: "Iron Sharpens Iron"

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joehewofiba.

  is this supposed to placate the ones who have been recently fired?

  is this a sign of the aging jw leadership?

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  careful

  WfB:

  Thanks for reposting this vid. I would never had found it and listened to it on the official website (I rarely go there). I can understand the comments of others who were turned off by it, but I think it gives insight into what is going on within the org right now. Surely one purpose of it is indeed to demonstrate "the right attitude" toward being removed from DO positions ("reassigned"), and by extension, to do the same for others being dismissed from Bethel homes. I remember years ago when I was active, one ex-CO telling me how scary it was to leave the full-time work and find secular work in the greater world (he'd been raised in, served at Bethel, then took up the circuit work, so he never had a real job). He was not as aged as these bros., however. He also commented several times on how working in a worldly job, going to meetings in a local congo, and dealing with the real-life problems that faced the average bro. or sister taught him many things he never would have learned as a FT servant.
  

  One of the observations made by some above struck me: none of them ever even smiles. The only one regularly smiling is the one with the secure FT position, who's still having the org pay for everything, the GB-helper interviewer. I cannot help but wonder if these 3 old-timers have some kind of serious internal questions/doubts/feelings of hurt for having been pretty much dumped but are unwilling, of course, due to their lifelong course of loyalty to admit this to themselves. They thus react by overcompensating in their comments and they are put forth as sterling examples, yet they do look extremely unhappy, in site of their claims otherwise. Are we to write off their obviously sad demeanor just to their advanced age and healthy problems, or are there deeper issues here?
  
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  54

  What would you do if the Society Declares Bankruptcy

  by Quarterback in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  special pioneers let go.

  bethel workers laid off.

  construction halts, what's next?

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  careful

  STA:

  probably let our beards grow

  Aha! So THAT is what it would take to motivate them to let us do what Jehovah naturally made men to do, let grow the hairs on our faces that he put there. I've always wondered about that!
  
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  36

  What is your purpose or what do you wish to accomplish while a member of this board?

  by Tenacious in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i joined this forum i was seeking more people who felt the same way i did in terms of seeing the jehovah's witness organization for what it truly was; a false prophet.. once i found like-minded members i slowly started to open up and participate more in trying to help others that were also exiting mentally and physically.

  today, i offer support to anyone who desires it regardless of what they believe or not believe.. so what is your purpose on this board?.

  support?

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  careful

  While some of what is posted is erroneous and/or sheer conjecture that is ultimately shown to be wrong, there is much accurate info here, stuff certainly NOT available from the WTS. Years ago there were some fine "heavy" posters here (Narkissos, slimboyfat, Leolia), and that sort of heavy, accurate research is no longer current here, though it's always available by searching since it's kept on the server.

  committeechairman once said that he came here b/c official WT info is available here before the local elders get from "mother." So beside the shoulders to cry on, comrades to vent to, and so on, just from an info perspective, this site has great value.
  
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  43

  WTB&TS has invested $40,000,000 in November 2007 in a Hedge fund located in the Cayman Islands, a tax haven

  by sammy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  wtb&ts has invested $40,000,000 in november 2007 in a hedge fund located in the cayman islands, a tax haven.

  the document is from the official website : securities and exchange commission:.

  http://www.sec.gov/archives/edgar/vprr/07/9999999997-07-048801 .

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  careful

  Thanks for posting this. Breaking open the kid's piggy bank to contribute would probably not sit well with many ignorant R&F Witnesses if they knew that the WTS has so many millions to invest while they're being told how broke they are!
  
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  45

  Governing Body, painted in a corner, now what?

  by Wasanelder Once in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the governing body have painted themselves in a corner, so to speak.

  if they acknowledge their response to abuse claims was insensitive, unloving and inadequate they are denying the belief that "god's way" is best and risk losing abuse cases.

  if they stick with it and say it is "god's way according to the bible" they will be seen as cult leaders and risk losing abuse cases.

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  careful

  WOAE: fascinating thread. Thanks.

  DOC: haven't they already been lining up for some time now? Haven't there been dozens of hushed-up payouts?

  d4g:

  AM III would not have mentioned the above quote in a broadcast a few months back, were that not the case.

  Right on! They are definitely running scared, as those TV broadcast comments show. In their minds they're digging in. Some may well be expecting this to be the issue that leads to the big A.
  
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  13

  Born Ins Vs Converts

  by JW_Rogue in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  did you ever feel like born ins were looked at differently than those that were converted?

  i always felt that there was a level of suspicion around those "raised in the truth".

  that we were always suspected of being jws to make our family happy.

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  careful

  Anybody know which of the GB members are born-ins and which converts?

  From what I've read Morris is a convert and Sanderson a born-in. Anyone want to add to that?

  How much do you think the difference matters among them? I remember some elder meetings where the difference manifested itself... It must among them too, at least at times.
  
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  46

  We are slowly moving away from that kind of preaching work

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  john hoyle--jws go knocking on strangers doors and try to get inside homes to preach.. wt rep--we are slowly moving away from that kind of preaching work, we do more preaching by using literature carts and personal telephone calls.. .

  the above quote is from john hoyle's website:http://insidethewatchtower.com/doctrine/phone-calls-to-bethel-jw-org-email-and-contacts/.

  it's interesting, isn't it?

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  careful

  joe134cd:

  I think they're not going onto the web previously is mainly due to their earlier experience with it. To them it was source of problems, two kinds of "evil". Brothers were accessing porn like never before. Some bros. would go online with their wives, showing them oral sex, threesomes, etc. and then try to get their wives to try such things out. Without going off on a tangent into the morality of such sexual things, to the service department and the GB, that is, in their limited experience, the net was a source of trouble. The same was just as true, indeed perhaps more so, with their view of apostasy. The net was THE source of many losing their faith in the org as God's sole spokesman on earth. Can you see why they distrusted it so much?

  The remarkable thing here is that something, or more likely some things, really caused them to do an about face here, in a very big way. It would be interesting to know just what those factors were...
  
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  46

  We are slowly moving away from that kind of preaching work

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  john hoyle--jws go knocking on strangers doors and try to get inside homes to preach.. wt rep--we are slowly moving away from that kind of preaching work, we do more preaching by using literature carts and personal telephone calls.. .

  the above quote is from john hoyle's website:http://insidethewatchtower.com/doctrine/phone-calls-to-bethel-jw-org-email-and-contacts/.

  it's interesting, isn't it?

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  careful

  For what it's worth, they came to my door this week. They waited after they knocked too. I just don't respond any more. It's the safest course in my situation. Sure, they've got this new avenue they're pushing, but I don't see them giving up on their signature modus operandi. In the last year they've come at least 3 times to my home, and the same congo runs a booth outside the local Walmart as well.