Wonderment, thank you for your work!
Of course, the NWT translators have made a point that in this revision the older versions of the NWT have become more readable, often in spite of the difficulty of the Hebrew (see, for example, Gen. 48:22; Ex. 1:21; Job 12:5-6). So why did they only partially do so here? They are willing to change "Kiss the son, that He may not become incensed" to "Honor the son, or God will become indignant," but not provide a meaningful translation for "perish in the way." Doesn't that seem odd? In hundreds of other passages they opted for the renderings in translations like the NIV, NEB, and so on, so why not here? Taking refuge in the difficult Hebrew while having the courage to work with that same handicap elsewhere seems inconsistent, eh?
For instance, consider these intelligible translations:
"and you are struck down in mid course," NEB.
"and your way come to nothing," NJB.
"and your way be doomed," NJPS/Tanakh.
"and your ways will be destroyed," NIV.
Wouldn't one of these renderings have been suitable here, rather than leave the reader wondering what the phrase means while the org. claims to make the Scriptures understandable?
careful
JoinedPosts by careful
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Undeclared changes to the 2013 NWT
by Doug Mason inin the following from the 2013 edition of the nwt, the watchtower society indicates that when it released its initial 1950 edition, it considered the greek text provided by westcott and hort as its master text.
as a result of these additional masters, the wts made some undeclared changes to the 2013 nwt.
it does not list these changes or give any explanations.. greek text: in the late 19th century, scholars b. f. westcott and f.j.a.
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careful
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Large print revised NWT?
by careful inin the jan. jwdotorg.
broadcast posted by wifibandit here,.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4737040503537664/jw-broadcasting-december-2015.
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careful
In the Jan. JWdotOrg. broadcast posted by wifibandit here,
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4737040503537664/jw-broadcasting-december-2015
the main chair Mark Noumair is using a large print soft binding revised NWT with the same gray-silver laptop color as the small revised NWT released a few years ago. Later in the vid the sister using the black laptop seems to have one too. So is this out and available to average publishers? If so, does it replace the old large, brown hard-cover print one from 1984? What are the features that make it different from the standard sized gray-silver Bible? Would some here with this new edition fill the rest of us in on it?
Thanks.
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Undeclared changes to the 2013 NWT
by Doug Mason inin the following from the 2013 edition of the nwt, the watchtower society indicates that when it released its initial 1950 edition, it considered the greek text provided by westcott and hort as its master text.
as a result of these additional masters, the wts made some undeclared changes to the 2013 nwt.
it does not list these changes or give any explanations.. greek text: in the late 19th century, scholars b. f. westcott and f.j.a.
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careful
Thanks Splash. What does "perish from the way" mean? If they were looking to make the revision more intelligible, they missed something here! -
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JW Sites?
by EternalPettingZoo inlong time lurker who just created an account.
i was raised a witness, never dunked, have new jw bride ( why u ask?
um... i do love her, just not the dub side, which is raising its little head more and more now) and a little 5 month old that i would like to have other options in life than a full time pioneer married to a 23 year old ms who works for his daddy's janitor business.
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"without bias"---now THAT'S funny! -
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New British terror attack just occured train station!
by Witness 007 ina man yelling "this is for syria" slashed a strangers throat and was quickly tasered by police and arrested.
video avalible...looks like war is coming soon.
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Awesome New Books on JW's, MUST READ!
by johnny depp inhey, i just thought i let you guys know about these two books i read:jehovah's witnesses, what lies behind the truththe watchtower society, organizational misbehaviorboth books by gabriel h ibarra.
awesome!
awesome!
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careful
From the web:
Jehovah’s Witnesses continue to blind themselves to the total ruthless control the Organization as a living organism has over their lives as it imposes, molds, and uses its members as expendables to expand its own sovereign powers. Presented within this work are experiences that show the Organization’s ruthless tactics, using disposable victims for its own selfish gain. Experiences which establish without question that “the loving, caring Organization” as preached by Jehovah’s Witness propaganda simply does not exist. This work destroys the blinders of faith and value giving readers the keen social perception needed to view the Jehovah’s Witness religion like an outsider but from within, to clearly see the difference between what is preached and what is practiced. It exposes the true speech and conduct of Jehovah’s Witnesses unseen by the public.
330 pages. $50.
Sounds pretty "ruthless...ruthless..."
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I made a bet...
by Garrett in...with a sister.
she says she knows an elder that can prove me wrong in everything i say about the organization.
i bet her that he will not be able to answer my questions and if he does, that he will tell me to have faith.
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careful
Maybe a ploy to get you disfellowshiped? Be careful! -
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Rick Tunon?
by careful ini recently read alan feuerbacher's life story at https://ad1914.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/why-i-am-no-longer-a-jehovah.pdf, and something struck me.
perhaps someone else here has addressed it before, but i think it's worth bringing up.
on p. 16 he mentions a 10-hour meeting he had with a man studying and two ny jw heavyweights at the home of one, rick tunon.
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careful
I recently read Alan Feuerbacher's life story at https://ad1914.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/why-i-am-no-longer-a-jehovah.pdf, and something struck me. Perhaps someone else here has addressed it before, but I think it's worth bringing up. On p. 16 he mentions a 10-hour meeting he had with a man studying and two NY JW heavyweights at the home of one, Rick Tunon. This meeting took place in 1994, 10 years before the supposed WTS "anointed scholar" John Albu died, and it was over some of the more difficult WTS teachings, ones few Witnesses would have any interest in and certainly not be capable of defending for 10 hours! Feuerbacher calls the other one "a relatively young anointed brother named Rick Tunon."
We can note how, from the modern practice we see with GB 2.1, a bro. who claims to be anointed comes to be "invited to join the GB." The pattern is being loyal to the org for a long time and preferably in full-time service for a long time too. So then isn't this Rick Tunon about due, especially in light of the appointment of the GB's most recent member, Mark Sanderson?
What do people here at the forum know of this man? If he was "relatively young" 21 years ago, then he certainly is no longer so. The GB is down to just 7 members, some of whom must be getting old and it must be difficult for them to accomplish their workload. So is this Rick Tunon in line? Why hasn't he already been "invited"? Is he too much of a maverick? Do they fear he might rock the boat? He would seem like a loyal, prime candidate.
One thing struck me. Feuerbacher states, "But Tunon, wanting to help restore my faith, explained how he had become anointed', which bordered on a miraculous experience for him." Might this be view as suspicious by current GB members since that seems like a line that "real" anointed ones do not discuss even though the average Witness usually craves to know this info.
Your thoughts?
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Is this the earliest WT reference to 1975?
by Splash ini thought that the 1975 thing started in the mid to late 60's, but it seems the seeds were sown two decades earlier.is this the earliest reference to it?.
18 how many today are awake to the fact that the lord christ jesus, by his resurrection of the faithful bride members that slept in death, is taking his "bride" unto his father's house and the marriage of the lamb has begun' .... they do not say, 'it is a long time yet to the wind-up, and, according to the present understanding of bible chronology, six thousand years of human history will end first in the coming seventies and till then it is a long stretch to serve the lord continuously and undividedly.'.
... they keep their eye and heart on jehovah's kingdom, and not on the time clock.
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Thanks NN and blondie! -
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Is this the earliest WT reference to 1975?
by Splash ini thought that the 1975 thing started in the mid to late 60's, but it seems the seeds were sown two decades earlier.is this the earliest reference to it?.
18 how many today are awake to the fact that the lord christ jesus, by his resurrection of the faithful bride members that slept in death, is taking his "bride" unto his father's house and the marriage of the lamb has begun' .... they do not say, 'it is a long time yet to the wind-up, and, according to the present understanding of bible chronology, six thousand years of human history will end first in the coming seventies and till then it is a long stretch to serve the lord continuously and undividedly.'.
... they keep their eye and heart on jehovah's kingdom, and not on the time clock.
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careful
I remember finding this quotation in the 1944 WT back when I was active, young, and single years ago, back when I had time to do such research. In fact, I was researching the whole 1975 thing on my own. After I found this WT study article, I interviewed one old bro. in the congo who went back to before Rutherford's death. He was surprised that I asked him about it but got very happy, even excited, that I did. He said, "Yes, there were some who felt that the preaching work was suddenly not as vital then, since according to the 'new light' revealed at the time, the end could not have come for 30+ more years. That WT study article was to chastise them not to have such a wrong attitude."
It really caused me to pause and consider how this change came about and what it meant at the time. First, how it came about. The Judge had gradually rejected many of Russell's beliefs and teachings (Christmas, the cross, the importance of modern (earthly) Israel in prophecy, some of his chronologies like the jubilees cycles, etc.), but for some reason had held on to the 6000 years from Adam's creation idea (as ending the 1870s). Fred Franz, as Rutherford's main advisor, had evidently dissented from the Judge's feelings here, so when Rutherford died, Franz, with Knorr's approval of course, set to change some doctrine. One of these was this chronology. This is what led to that 1944 WT study article.
Second, more important is the role this doctrinal change played in WTS history. Stop and think about it. Some significant institutional projects were begun, ones that would take a long time to complete, or that showed some long term commitment. 1. Gilead School. 2. Translating the Bible afresh (the NWT). 3. The Theocratic Ministry School, that is, training thousands of people to handle witnessing at the door and conducting Bible studies on their own. All of these indicate that to Knorr and Franz, the end was not just immediately around the corner. They saw a 30+ year window of opportunity to do the preaching work. If you look at the publications carefully after Rutherford's death, you will not see the "Armageddon is any day now" drumbeat that one sees today, that is, until Fred Franz began doing it in the 1960s, in that book, Life Everlasting in the Freedom of the Sons of God, that is generally viewed as having started all the 1975 hype. In fact, it goes back much further, to this change in chronology that is reflected in the WT article that Splash has put up.
Finally, the whole 1975 debacle takes on a new dimension. We have Fred Franz in the mid 1940s coming to believe that the end could not come for 30+ more years. As the time drew nearer and nearer for, in his mind, the earliest possible date for the big A to arrive, he become more convinced that it had to come then. I suspect that this was a major factor in his speculations that caused the whole thing. If you look carefully at his pronouncements back then, you'll see that he was still dabbling in that jubilees cycle thing again, though he never really took off with it like the 6000 years from Adam chronology.
What I am so amazed at is that no one has ever recognized this till Splash's discovery, not Ray Franz who is supposed to have lived all thru this, not Penton who is supposed to have done all this research on the 1975 debacle, not anyone else. It's been missed by everyone, except perhaps that one old bro. that I interviewed years ago. Nice work, Splash for bringing this to light!