Posts by careful

13

New flip flop document - updated from last year

by Splash in

about this time last year i uploaded a document as part of my going away post.. as stated at the time i had to lie low, and am still doing so.

sort of.

mostly.i pop up rarely to chip in when my 'ardour comes up into my nose' about something lol, but still read the leaks and back-and-forth between the members here.

careful

Splash, good to see you back here. I'm glad your break was not permanent. As always, thanks for your update and work.

3

aside from the statistics inthe new yb there are also a couple of cases of it promoting child baptism.. in the section about the young remembering their grand creator in georiga you will find this.... https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/2017-yearbook/georgia/youth-remember-grand-creator/.

in support of parental training, elders try to involve young ones in congregation activities as early as possible.

nestori, who was baptized when he was 11 years old, states: “the elders gave me various small assignments from a very early age.

careful

There seem to be at least 3 reasons behind GB 2's change on this issue:

1. The GB are eager to inflate the flat growth rate in developed lands, and having the already associated youth baptized is an easy temporary solution. You can imagine how bad the newly baptized stat would look without this new policy. In a similar way they had already invented the "doorstop Bible study" to inflate the "Bible study" stat.

2. Several of the GB got baptized as children, and, in their eyes, it worked out well for them. People of limited thinking ability often cannot see outside their own realm of experience. We know how limited the current GB's thinking abilities are.

3. It is much easier to control the born-in youth if they can just DF them when they cause problems within the org. That way the org can marginalize any who act up and threaten any other born-ins with similar treatment. The easiest way for such a policy to work is to get the all the youth baptized early on as officially "in" and subject to the standard discipline, before puberty and its associated complexities hit.

What will be interesting to watch in the coming years is how the downside of this policy will play out. Should we not expect that there will be serious "loyalty" issues with moms and dads who went along with the new policy and had Johnny and Mary baptized at 9 or 10, and then Johnny and Mary went normal at 14? Would not such parents begin to say, "That was too young to get baptized. It shouldn't count!" after their kid is DFed at 14? The recent statements in a WT study article (as reported at this forum—I don't read them) about the permanent validity of baptism may well be indicating that this parental reaction is already hitting the fan...

I've thought about any biblical precedent that they might invoke on this matter. Not that I agree with it at all, but I suppose they might call upon the idea that in ancient Israel the youth were born into a commitment to keep circumcision, Passover, and the Mosaic Law, just by being an Israelite, because their ancestors had committed themselves and their descendants to do such things. Does anyone know if this as been espoused in WT publications on this child baptism matter? Of course, such thinking would fly in the face of the NT view, but I'm wondering if it's already been invoked by the org.

14

What is Gilead's current curriculum?

by careful in

some years back alltimejeff reported on what gilead's curriculum was like from a guy who had gone thru it.

it was detailed and enlightening for those of us in the dark.

(hey, atj, are you still checking in here?).

careful

Some years back AllTimeJeff reported on what Gilead's curriculum was like from a guy who had gone thru it. It was detailed and enlightening for those of us in the dark. (Hey, ATJ, are you still checking in here?)

A year or so ago sir82 stated:

Gilead was re-purposed 3 or 4 years ago - it no longer trains missionaries, it just trains "Bethel hit squads" to go out and "encourage" congregations which are "in trouble".

Can anyone give us the inside scoop on what Gilead is now teaching like ATJ did in its earlier version? What are they doing with the sisters there if it's become just a curriculum in studying WTS policy making and enforcement?

117

2017 Yearbook released

by bohm in

jw
friends

i saw this on reddit:.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/5mlgsm/2017_yearbook_of_jehovahs_witnesses/.

overall the numbers are better than last year (1.8% growth compared to 1.5% last year -- as i predicted ;-) ) with an increase in all major figures including 1300 more congregations (i assume this is not physical kingdom halls?).

careful

SBF, thanks for the analysis re: congregations. It's insightful and well thought out. If there's real substance to it, then it has all the more import if the experience reported here has repeated itself in other places:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5537916782641152/more-congregations-one-strategies-they-used-inflate-numbers-my-city

13

ROJW - Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i was going through some research i had done a few years ago and came across something that referenced rojw healthcare support and a note to myself to take a look at rojw when i had the time.

so i did a search for rojw (an acronym for religious order of jehovah's witnesses).. the search turned up some interesting bits of information.. according to dun & bradstreet, rojw was founded in 2011:.

since 2011, rojw has been providing nonclassifiable establishments from wallkill.. for a list of persons who have worked for rojw:.

careful

OC,

Thanks for the research. Well done. There's a lot to digest here. It looks like more work could be done investigating this matter since you raise new issues. Slimboyfat, are you catching this?

One question already from what you posted: it looks a discrepancy in the year ROJW was founded—was it in 2011 according to D&B or 1999 according to Erica Belfield's entry (as I'm assuming) on the bizstanding link?

28

Bro Knorrs Notes RE Disfellowshipping & Two Witness Rule

by pale.emperor in

hi guys.

a fellow ex jw shared this with me.

haven't time to read them yet (i'm using my phone to go on internet).

careful

The idea of giving the talk after the DFing announcement comes from their interpretation of 1 Tim 5:20: "Reprove before all onlookers those who practice sin so the rest may also have fear."

A good link on the chronology of the doctrine is here:

http://www.silentlambs.org/df.htm

Evidently these "Notes" of Knorr became the basis for the 1952 WT articles first on the list.

28

Bro Knorrs Notes RE Disfellowshipping & Two Witness Rule

by pale.emperor in

hi guys.

a fellow ex jw shared this with me.

haven't time to read them yet (i'm using my phone to go on internet).

careful

Bonnie_Clyde:

I think the ref. to 1947 is to the Awake! article that said excommunication was wrong. See here:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/203859/1947-awake-says-excommunication-unbiblical-pagan?page=1

This a good find for helping date when disfellowshipping began, evidently between 1947 and 1951. Yet another example of a 180º turn in a short time frame.

Thanks for the post, pale.emperor.

Yes, I remember that they would say "Disfellowshipped for fornication/adultery/smoking/etc." back in the 1970s. Maybe it was in the late 70s when they changed that and just said "for conduct unbecoming a Christian." Then it went to just announcing the DFing w/o any stated reason, along with the aforementioned talk on the sin, in the early 80s, I think.

30

Jehovah's Wonderous Creation - The Guinea Worm

by pale.emperor in

you're not likely to see this in an awake!

magazine, but here goes.

for those that believe in intelligent design please explain this one to me:.

careful

Rainbow_Troll, so is the Book of Jubilees from Satan or Jehovah?

35

The Governing Body are doubling down on dogma!

by DATA-DOG in

in case you were wondering if the governing body we're going to become kinder and gentler, the answer is a big "no!!!

in the current study edition of the wt magazine, the sheeple are reminded of some very important key points.

1) god has an organization ( corporation ) that you must respect.. 2) only the gb/faithful slave can dispense spiritual food and only the gb/faithful slave can interpret the bible.. 3) individual dubs absolutely cannot learn "truth" on their own.. 4) god requires "unity of doctrine.

careful

DATA-DOG, when you say the "current study edition" what date do you mean? I have not kept up with the WT lit. in years, so I don't know. I realize from comments at this forum that the mags have changed. If you wouldn't mind sharing the pages numbers this stuff is on, that would be helpful to me. I'm going to have to read it, and I'd like to keep the pain of doing so to a minimum. Thanks in advance.

1

Go into the city to So-and-so

by Funchback in

matthew 26:18 ("go into the city to so-and-so..."-nwt) and ruth 4:1 ("at that boʹaz said: 'come here and sit down, so-and-so.

' "-nwt) used to annoy me.

i didn't really understand it.

careful

If you're interested in more detail, a professor of Hebrew Bible at Vanderbilt University wrote an article in 2012 on this phrase in the Ruth passage. Here's the link. It begins on page 251:

https://my.vanderbilt.edu/jacksasson/files/2013/03/Sasson-So-and-so-Eskenazi-Fs.pdf