careful

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Posts by careful

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  1

  The Baptist Churches Turn.

  by Lost in the fog in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  it's the turn of the american baptist churches to come under scrutiny now.

  .

  https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/star-telegram-uncovers-hundreds-of-sexual-abuse-cases-in-fundamentalist-baptist-churches/.

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  careful

  Thanks for the post. Some parallels with the org (fear-based), some not (summer camps).
  
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  Abuse Survivor's $4M Judgment Against Jehovah's Witness Umbrella Organization Upheld by Court 12/10/18

  by Not_Culty in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2018/12/10/court-upholds-abuse-survivors-4m-judgement-against-jehovahs-witness-umbrella-organization-389-52222/?slreturn=20181111101406.

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  careful

  Here's the article. I got it in a separate google search and got around paying for it.

  From the legal journal The Recorder:

  
  Abuse Survivor's $4M Judgment Against
  Jehovah's Witness Umbrella Organization
  Upheld by Court

  By Ross Todd | December 10, 2018 at 07:00 PM

  A California appellate court has upheld a $4-plus million judgment against Watchtower
  Bible and Tract Society of New York Inc., the top organizational body of Jehovah’s
  Witnesses, in a case brought by a woman who alleges she was molested as a child by
  a church elder in 2006.

  The ruling from the Fourth District Court of Appeal leaves in place terminating sanctions
  and a $4,016,152.39 judgment after Watchtower refused to hand over a trove of
  documents it received in response to a 1997 letter sent to Jehovah’s Witness
  congregations concerning known molesters in the church.

  The underlying case was brought on behalf of J.W., who was molested by Gilbert
  Simental, with whom she and her family attended the Mountain View Jehovah’s Witness
  congregation. J.W. contends that her family wouldn’t have allowed her to attend a
  slumber party at Simental’s house but for his service as an elder in the church, the
  highest authority at the congregational level of the organization. Simental was found
  guilty in two criminal cases of molesting J.W. and two other anonymous victims.

  J.W.’s lawyers at The Zalkin Law Firm and Pine Freeman Tillett had argued before the
  trial court the responses to the 1997 letter were relevant to her case because they could
  establish the church’s duty to protect children like her and to investigate Simental. They
  argued that the documents were needed for her negligence-based causes of action,
  and they were relevant to her punitive damages claim.

  In turn, the Watchtower’s lawyers at Clark Hill in Los Angeles initially had argued that
  the documents were protected by clergy-penitent privilege. After that privilege argument
  was turned back, they claimed that terminating sanctions were too extreme a remedy
  because the documents only applied to the punitive damages portion of the case.

  But the trial court sided with J.W. and awarded her $3 million for pain and suffering; $1
  million for future medical expenses; and $16,152.39 for costs.

  On appeal, Watchtower’s lawyers argued that J.W. hadn’t alleged that there was a lack
  of proximate cause between its actions and her injury, particularly since she was
  molested outside of church grounds and at an event that wasn’t church-sanctioned. But
  the Fourth District on Monday found that in a negligent hiring or retention case the focus
  should be on Watchtower’s actions and the risk of molestation that it “allegedly
  knowingly created.”

  “J.W. sufficiently alleged that Watchtower was responsible for Simental being in a
  position of authority within the church by alleging that Watchtower is the ultimate
  authority in the Jehovah’s Witness Church,” wrote Justice Douglas Miller in a 44-page
  opinion.

  Miller wrote that Watchtower’s warnings that the case would “open the litigation
  floodgates” was misplaced since proximate cause would be decided “on a case-by-case
  basis.”

  Watchtower’s lawyer, Richard Nakamura of Clark Hill, didn’t respond to an email
  seeking comment.

  J.W.’s attorney, Devin Storey of the Zalkin Law Firm, said that it was important the court
  found proximate cause “as long as there’s some kind of nexus to the defendant and to
  the defendant’s business.”

  Storey noted that he and his firm have litigated over the 1997 documents in two prior
  cases that have gone to the Court of Appeal and that highly redacted copies of some of
  the material have been handed over in a fourth case currently pending in Orange
  County.

  “We litigate cases of sexual abuse all day, every day,” he said of his firm. “I’ve never
  had a defendant other than Watchtower tell a court point blank, ‘I won’t comply.’”

  “Affirmatively understanding the order and saying ‘I’m not going to do it.’ … That’s not
  something I ever see.”
  
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  8

  Caleb and Sophia app?!?!?

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wtf???

  i didn’t know this was a thing.

  is someone making significant money from this?

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  careful

  The always-savvy GB (cough!) has ventured out into the electronic world, embracing it in their broadcasts and transitioning over from print media—they've got to expect and live with this sort of entrepreneurship: "rogue" Witnesses who will do these things. Such things are hard to control. We can compare those who have evidently begun making a living (a killing?) from selling JW (.org) jewelry, mementos, etc. The R&F will lap these things up, even if they're not officially sponsored by the org.
  
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  39

  How would you reason with a JW that it is okay to say Good Luck?

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any takers?.

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  careful

  "How would you reason with a JW"—about anything? That notion has the premise that you can reason with them. Isn't that a false premise? They only recognize their own authority.

  "At least we can try!" Well, if you're into frustration and wasting your time, have at it. Most here have other ways to spend their limited amount of time.
  
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  22

  Commuter Bethelite video

  by no-zombie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for those who missed last weeks clam meeting, there was a video played that was amazing ... however not in good way.. we are all aware how thousands of full time bethelites world wide got the boot and put out onto the street.

  some having giving most of their lives to the organization, but often with no real way to support themselves other than to depend on the generosity of others.

  so when this video talked about how special it would be for those who could step up and become a commuter bethelite, it made me think how calculating the governing body must be.

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  careful

  NZ: Thanks for the post.

  DS: Is this a rumor or do you have a reliable source you can share on the McKinsey consulting thing?
  
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  16

  Netherlands branch raided by police for pedophile records

  by krismalone in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/12/police-raid-jehovahs-witness-buildings-in-sexual-abuse-inquiries/

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  careful

  Thanks for the info! I'm sure they will try to cover up their past blunders in this regard by pointing to more recent, changed policies. Let's see if the Dutch government officials can see past that smokescreen.

  I really had to laugh (sadly, of course) when Dekker said "that the [JW] church should look to the example of the Catholic church to dealing with complaints about sexual abuse." Fat chance of that!

  
  
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  29

  Canada, Quebec: a lawsuit will soon begin against the Watchtower

  by yalbmert99 in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  yesterday, there was a court sitiing before the pedophilia lawsuit really starts in quebec(canada) on december 17-18, when it will be presented to the court for acceptance.

  see article in french:.

  https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/justice-et-faits-divers/actualites-judiciaires/201811/28/01-5205878-les-temoins-de-jehovah-defendent-leur-traitement-des-cas-dagressions-sexuelles.php.

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  careful

  Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted.
  
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  34

  What would make an Ex-Jw go back to been a full in Baptized JW

  by LOLS in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was just wondering , why would my jw husband return to been a full blown baptized jw after 20 years of fading?.

  he has spent 20 years of his life been a worldly person , with a worldly wife & kids & worldly friends .... to joining the borg full time , to getting baptized , to getting new brothers & sisters .... and to writing off most of his worldly friends (some his known his whole life ) , to trying to convince me & our children how wonderful this org is ......and anyone else who will listen :(.

  has anyone ever experienced this ...... oh and he seems to be in it 110% and no-one can say anything about this crazy org or show him proof that it all bs...... his such a clever independent , successful guy , why on earth would he go back to this , after been out for so many years & change into this domineering , opinionated fool ..... oh and his entire family also went back ... father , mother , brother & sister .

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  careful

  PE:

  The only thing that would make me go back is a lobotomy.

  Now I've heard of these rogue surgeons ... want their address?
  
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  19

  Serious Problems Between Elders

  by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ever encountered or eyewitnessed problems escalating, arguements and rows between elders right at the kh anyone?.

  one such experience was just before the meeting was about to start,we heard raised voices from the second room between two elders.

  a minute later two other elders went into the room and we could all hear that they were trying to cool the situation down with whatever was going on in there.

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  careful

  Such loud disagreements in elder meetings is not at all rare, unless you're in a cong with a BOE that really gets along (itself pretty rare). I know one bro who used to just start praying out loud, right in the boiling elder meetings to calm the others down.

  jp1692's comment above that they are just people too is spot on. The accounts at Acts 15:37-39 and Gal. 2:11-14 show that it went on in the first century among the leaders there too.
  
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  13

  Crazy ass cart witnessing!

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know i know we have all read about it but my mom goes out in service to this crazy cart witnessing crap.

  so they go sit by the cart for a half hour then they get back into the car to warm up and the next two sisters take over for a half hours etc.

  but then there is at least one brother siting in his car to watch and over see the sisters so he can be like their security.

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  careful

  Although it might sound a bit bizarre to those of us who were in years ago, I have heard from several of those still in that a new philosophy is afoot, and it would explain the cart phenomenon as part of this new "big picture." Given how much things have changed in recent years from what we were used to, it might be worthy of consideration. I don't know if I'd call it a rumor. Perhaps more of an undercurrent would be fitting.
  

  The cart witnessing is just another manifestation of the new GB belief that enough future growth will come simply by being physically visible, thru good press, being "better recognized" as one (of course, in Witness eyes the true) alternative to Christianity which will find ample growth through being publicly accepted and from family members who stay in.

  I admit that at first, I thought this was absurd. But then I thought, "Well, there have been all these bizarre changes that I never thought I'd see." Their "music" has hit new lows and is "worldly" according to the way such music was viewed when I was in. They've gone in wholesale for the digital broadcasting thing, electronic media, etc., something they used to vilify as Satanic because of apostates and porn, and make fun of as part of "Christendom." Their revised NWT is much closer now to the RSV, NIV, and so forth. Meeting in private homes has been given the axe so that meetings only take place at the public KH (= church to a newbie). This list could go on.

  We, as independent thinkers, will of course see all sorts of holes in such thinking. We will say things like, "Right, good press! Like the child abuse scandal, the blood issue, and shunning!" And we will look at the downturn in growth in Western lands and laugh at such a notion as ample growth thru public recognition. "Like people would want to give up the holidays—right!" But it's good to remember how illogical Witness thinking is. They are prime candidates for buying in to the above new belief system.

  Has anyone else heard of this undercurrent? Your thoughts?