You said it, 'To the imaginative, this spelled "666".'
careful
JoinedPosts by careful
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10
"Beast" Memories
by NotFormer ini've been crapping on the wt a lot lately, which sometimes seems a bit unfair to me, especially since i was never in, therefore i don't really have a dog in the fight.
to provide a bit of balance, i'll reminisce about the rampant prophecy speculation going on in mainstream christianity (i refuse to use the wt's pejorative term: "christendom", especially since by definition, they're part of that classification 🙄) in the 70s and 80s.
to be fair, the churches themselves had been around long enough to realise that end times interpretations are like arseholes, everybody has one.
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Were JW Celebrities Ever An Asset To The Organisation?
by NotFormer injust wondering if the rich celebrities that occasionally were aligned with the wt gave enough to the 'tower to be a worthwhile presence within the organisation?.
my gut instinct is: "no".
i imagine that the jackson family gave a fair bit, but it was obviously never enough to buy michael the right to be held as being in good standing.
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careful
But the true visual is probably more like that of that idiot Herbert W Armstrong, getting himself filmed with various leaders while jetting 🛩️ around the world 🌍🌎🙄
Yeah, he took Paul's line about being "ambassadors for Christ" to a whole new level!
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Any JW's been “debaptised” in Belgium?
by was a new boy in'the belgian church, facing rising protests after a television film on sexual abuse and cover-ups in its ranks, has appealed against a government data protection agency ruling that the diocese of ghent must let a person be “debaptised”.
the church considers baptism a permanent act that cannot be done away with, but the agency ruled in december that the plaintiff’s personal data record overrides the church’s interest in preserving its records.. .
the number of “debaptism” requests had been falling since a peak of 5,237 in 2021, when the vatican said it could not bless same-sex unions, but they have reportedly spiked again after the television series gotvergeten (“forgotten by god”) last september depicted the scandals in belgium.
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careful
WANB, thanks for the share. Yes, NF, "This is a nice precedent in waiting". I wonder if the Catholic Church, the WTS, or any other religious group will fight this in court. Surely the org will feel threatened by this agency's decision.
BA2, "the spy and cop business"----HA! So true, so true.
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The Next Big Thing In WT World
by NotFormer inthings got a bit lively after the agm leaks in october.
there was a lot of discussion going on on this board for a few months.
now that all the leaks have been more or less confirmed as policy, and we've had lively discussions at length concerning the changes, things seem to have slowed down here.. a few suggestions have been raised as to what might be the next changes, such as women being allowed to wear slacks (in the usa, anyway), decoupling from 1914 as an anchoring date and others.. so, what changes do you think will be announced this year?.
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careful
Obrien: whatever you wish to share will likely be welcomed by someone here since the forum is pretty diverse.
TousOH: on the blood issue, I think you're right. I doubt that'd ever change that doctrine, however, so my question is really a fantasy.
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The Reasoning Book
by Magnum inthe book reasoning from the scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every service meeting, and every theocratic ministry school meeting thereafter.
many jws had copies bound together with their bibles.
it was huge in jw land back then.. at that time, with the reasoning book, jws were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.. compare the situation today with that of the 80's.
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careful
I'm not really joking when I say that the "reasoning" employed today in the upper levels of the org is quite a step down from what it was back when that book came out. It itself was a revision of the Make Sure of All Things book. While other factors are likely at work, don't you think that the lack of intelligence among the current GB and their devotees is one reason why it's gone out of print and stayed so? I mean you have to have some intelligence to realize that old book's considerable value.
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The Next Big Thing In WT World
by NotFormer inthings got a bit lively after the agm leaks in october.
there was a lot of discussion going on on this board for a few months.
now that all the leaks have been more or less confirmed as policy, and we've had lively discussions at length concerning the changes, things seem to have slowed down here.. a few suggestions have been raised as to what might be the next changes, such as women being allowed to wear slacks (in the usa, anyway), decoupling from 1914 as an anchoring date and others.. so, what changes do you think will be announced this year?.
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careful
I agree with "pent-up demand" when it comes to beards. Do you think that if they GB dropped the blood refusal (something I doubt they'd do!) would Witnesses flock to blood banks to donate?
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Patterson New Visitor Centre & Museum Announced
by raymond frantz inhttps://www.jwupdates.com/post/new-patterson-visitor-center-and-first-century-museum.
january 1, 2024, marked the official opening of the patterson visitor center, located at the watchtower educational center in patterson, new york, u.s.a. the feature museum of the visitors’ center is entitled “first-century bible village.” brother isaiah miller, who works in the museum department at bethel, said: “the bible village was designed to provide everyone with a realistic and educational experience.
studies show that interactive learning has a powerful effect on people of all ages.” after her tour, one visitor exclaimed: “this museum made me feel like i had been transported back to the land of ancient israel.
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careful
Vidiot2 days ago
Worth a shot, I s’pose.Taking a page from Ken Ham’s playbook, huh?
I think what may be going more than imitating Ken Ham is that they are trying to compete with Steve Green and his millions from Hobby Lobby, specifically with his huge Museum of the Bible in Washington DC. The GB would rather have their faithful visit Warwick, Selters, and now Patterson instead of the ark exhibit south of Cincinnati in Kentucky or the MOTB in Washington.
BTW, the MOTB has proven to be quite a scandal:
https://hyperallergic.com/467318/dead-sea-scrolls-at-the-museum-of-the-bible-revealed-as-forgeries/
Since the Greens are so politically involved (right wing, of course), they've drawn a lot of fire. The org's projects are so much smaller and they are so removed from the big bad world that no-one outside of Witnessland will take note of their projects.
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The Next Big Thing In WT World
by NotFormer inthings got a bit lively after the agm leaks in october.
there was a lot of discussion going on on this board for a few months.
now that all the leaks have been more or less confirmed as policy, and we've had lively discussions at length concerning the changes, things seem to have slowed down here.. a few suggestions have been raised as to what might be the next changes, such as women being allowed to wear slacks (in the usa, anyway), decoupling from 1914 as an anchoring date and others.. so, what changes do you think will be announced this year?.
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careful
HA, Obrien—"the Abigail class"! Now that's really funny. But given Fred Franz's departure, it's hardly possible that any of the current GB members and their lackeys would be so creative, biblical, or theological. It smells too much of type/anti-type, far over the current leaders' intellect. Remember how they have categorically rejected the entire type/anti-type paradigm, without replacing it anything, of course!
Even if they were to create such an "Abigail class", they would never serve on the GB—wrong gender. I doubt they would ever go with women being equal with men in administration. The statements in the NT on the role of women are just too blunt, and you know how they feel about "inspiration" and "inerrancy."
Are you new here? If so, welcome.
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Christians Encouraged to Read 'Pagan' Works
by peacefulpete inclement of alexandria.
the stromata, or miscellanies.
book vi.
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careful
Not that I'm defending it, of course, but you realize the org would say that since the authors cited above were all from the time after "Christianity became apostate," good Witnesses should not view them as real Christians.
"Read only the organization's publications, brother! Leave the other stuff to the F&DS."
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A&E Cult show replaying on Court TV tomorrow
by careful inthat "cult and extreme belief" show that elizabeth vargas put together and showed on a&e in 2018 is being rebroadcast tomorrow on the court tv channel.
it has several groups including nxvim, warren jeffs, and jws.
for the last it has the case of romy maple—in case anyone missed it and wants to check it out..
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careful
Since this Times-Standard page has a pay wall, here's a cut and paste of the story, from 2018.
Local News
Fortuna woman, ex-Jehovah’s Witness shares story of sexual abuse
By Will Houston | whouston@times-standard.com | Eureka Times-StandardPUBLISHED: June 1, 2018 at 1:58 a.m. | UPDATED: July 30, 2018 at 6:13 a.m.Romy Maple says she can finally walk on the beaches near Table Bluff without fear.
For most of her life, those breaking waves were things Maple said she was taught to fear by the man who repeatedly sexually assaulted, drugged and raped her since she was a 4-year-old girl.
Maple said she was told by her assaulter that if she ever told anyone what he was doing to her, he would throw her into the waves. He pretended to many times and even pushed her into the water once, she said.
“I really thought he was going to kill me,” Maple said in an episode of the new A&E channel series “Cults and Extreme Beliefs” that aired Tuesday.
In an interview with the Times-Standard this week, Maple said both she and her assaulter were part of the same congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Fortuna. She was a fourth generation Witness on her mother’s side.
At the age of 11, Maple said she and her cousin — whom Maple said was one of the man’s several victims — decided to tell one of the Jehovah’s Witness elders about what was happening to them. The elders are men who lead the congregation.
Maple said the elder slammed his fist on the table and called them both liars. From when she was 11 years old up to her current age of 47, Maple said she has begged nearly 20 elders within the Jehovah’s Witnesses to listen to her and do something about what happened to her and the other victims.
None would listen, she said.
Maple said she talked to other victims who are still members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. She said some of these victims have been told to remain silent and to leave it into Jehovah’s hands, according to Maple.
After carrying her experiences with her for most of her life, Maple said she was given the opportunity to share her story at a conference last year in Florida. It was the first time she shared her story before such a large audience, Maple said.
This reporter attempted to contact the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Fortuna Kingdom Hall and contacted the world headquarters in New York state for comment. No responses were provided by Thursday evening.
A&E also stated it contacted Jehovah’s Witnesses, which declined to comment on the allegations, but provided producers a copy of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ position on child protection.
“Jehovah’s Witnesses abhor child abuse and view it as a crime. We recognize that the authorities are responsible for addressing such crimes,” the policy states. “The elders do not shield any perpetrator of child abuse from the authorities.”
The friend who had invited Maple to the conference was also an ex-Jehovah’s Witness and was able to connect Maple to the A&E channel for an opportunity tell her story.
After six months of filming across five states, A&E aired Maple’s story Tuesday evening as the second episode of a nine-part series, “Cults and Extreme Beliefs.”
Maple said she moved to Florida to get as far away from the hurt and damage she felt in Fortuna. But after sharing her experience last year, Maple said she is ready to confront her past and moved back to Fortuna in February with a mission.
“I’m going to do everything in my power to create a voice, awareness and show people that there is hope and that there is safe in a world that we’re taught to fear,” Maple told the Times-Standard.
Maple said she is no longer a member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, but it was only a recent decision to leave. She said she officially left the group — which she now considers to be a cult — eight years ago shortly after her mother died. In the A&E episode, Maple said she continued being a Jehovah’s Witness for so long because of a combination of love for her mother and guilt.
After leaving the group behind, Maple said she realized how much her life had been controlled as a member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
While she had her daughter, Maple said she felt alone, afraid of everyone and began to have night terrors.
“I got to a point where I wanted to take my life,” Maple told the Times-Standard. “I wanted to walk off my dock and I was dreaming of it.
“ … I was heartbroken,” Maple continued, her voice breaking slightly.
But after sharing her story at the Florida conference and on A&E, Maple said she “felt a fire in me.”
She said she now wants to seek justice for her children and “validation in my own heart for being systematically ignored my entire life.”
Maple has since created a website and is the process of creating a new organization called “707 SAFE” — which stands for Sexual Assault Fighters Elite — in order to bring awareness of sexual assault within the Jehovah’s Witnesses and create a space where survivors can be validated, share their stories and be able to move on. Her ultimate goal is to create a local conference where survivors can meet.
Maple said she is still weighing the decision of whether to confront her abuser, who she said still lives in Fortuna.
Both Maple and A&E stated they are not releasing identifying information of the man for legal reasons. Although Maple said she wants to bring charges against the man, the statute of limitations for sexual assault cases for victims who are 16 years old or younger is seven years.
“When you get out and you escape and you start thinking for yourself, usually it’s way past seven years,” Maple said. “So then what? You’re out here trying to figure out the world having no idea. I was married at 17. You’re so isolated so you don’t get to learn those fundamentals. So not only do you walk out of this place alone, you’re trying to pick up the pieces alone.”
Maple said she is advocating for legislation that will remove this statute of limitations so that she can file charges against the man and allow other victims to do the same. While Gov. Jerry Brown signed legislation in 2016 which ended the statute of limitations in certain rape and child molestation cases, the law is not retroactive.
Maple said she and her family moved to Alaska when she was 10. She said she would return to Fortuna to visit the family who took care of her when her mother was fighting Hodgkin lymphoma. It was during one of these trips that she and her cousin attempted to tell an elder what happened to them.
Maple said the distance of her new Alaska home from her abuser made her feel safe enough to tell her brother what had happened who subsequently told their mother. Maple said her mother believed her and filed a report with the Humboldt County Sheriff’s Office, but Maple said elders in the Fortuna Kingdom Hall elders called Maple a liar and worked to protect the man. Maple said the police talked to her abuser as well as the elder that called her a liar and the investigation was shut down.
“They wanted to make this a secret. They wanted to appear on the outside world that they’re this clean congregation, but the secrets that they hold,” Maple said before cutting off.
Since the A&E episode aired on Tuesday, Maple said she has received hundreds of messages of support and at least 75 messages from other sexual assault survivors.
Maple said Humboldt County feels brand new since she has returned. She said she loves the smells, the ocean and taking pictures of the flowers.
“I did come back here with a mission. I came back here to finish my story and finish my book, ‘Shocked into Silence: A Little Girl Forgotten,’” Maple said. “I don’t know where I’m going after this, but it’s all spiraling up from here. Somewhere beautiful. I just want to take everybody with me and give everybody hope.”
The A&E episode can be watched online through your cable provider on www.aetv.com/shows/cults-and-extreme-belief/season-1/episode-2 or A&E On Demand and the A&E app. The episode is set to air throughout this weekend on A&E, with viewers being asked to check their local listings for showtimes.
Maple said she invites other survivors to contact her through her website if they would like to share their stories at www.romymaple.com.
Will Houston can be reached at 707-441-0504.
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