Posts by wizzstick

47

Overlapping Generations: A wacky kool-aid thread

by RayPublisher in

another wacky kool aid thread for your reading pleasure from the hardcore dubbs on jw talk dot net is here if you want to read it:.

they wax philosophical, they curse this horrible old world, they gently try to project how soon the big a will come, and then swoon when someone quotes a tidbit from a gb member that they overheard.

warning: those with weak stomachs do not read!.

wizzstick

Heeeyyyyyyy. . . . I do believe WIZZSTICK was just being sarcastic. . . . Give him some room to breathe.
I know personally my sarcasm runs soooooo deep it almost seems from the heart

You are indeed right breakfast of champions.

It struck me as funny that the 'old light' is still online on the WT Online library, in Reasoning from the Scriptures. That book is online to help JWs 'reason' with people but contains an out of date explanation. So, for example, a kid at school using his WOL could easily preach old light in explaining it.

Food at the proper time indeed!

47

Overlapping Generations: A wacky kool-aid thread

by RayPublisher in

another wacky kool aid thread for your reading pleasure from the hardcore dubbs on jw talk dot net is here if you want to read it:.

they wax philosophical, they curse this horrible old world, they gently try to project how soon the big a will come, and then swoon when someone quotes a tidbit from a gb member that they overheard.

warning: those with weak stomachs do not read!.

wizzstick

What is all this disgraceful apostate talk from JWTalk and JWN?

Overlapping generations?

Why that is not what I read this afternoon - it's this generation that was alive when “the sign” of “the last days” began its fulfillment...

Click on the fine up todate spiritual food from the Faithful and Discrete Slave...food at the proper time brothers:

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989220

Scroll all the way down to: When will the end of this wicked world come?

And let there be an end to this shameful nonsense. Overlapping generations indeed!

79

When did people of the Great Crowd start to appear?

by wizzstick in

quick question, faithful followers of our treacherous hearts... .

i should know the answer to this but.... so the great crowd class were identified in 1935, but does the wt suggest when it's members first appeared on earth?

all first century christians were of the annointed (i think that's right), so when do they think the first of the great crowd rolled up?.

wizzstick

In 2007, the WT was forced to do away with 1935 when the last 3 Governing Body members (who were born before 1935) passed away. The current Governing Body has no members who were born before 1935. But when they erased 1935, they never provided a NEW start date for the Great Crowd.

I was going to say 'but that was about erasing 1935 as the date for the sealing of the annointed...not for identifying the Great Crowd'...but thinking about it one followed the other right?

79

When did people of the Great Crowd start to appear?

by wizzstick in

quick question, faithful followers of our treacherous hearts... .

i should know the answer to this but.... so the great crowd class were identified in 1935, but does the wt suggest when it's members first appeared on earth?

all first century christians were of the annointed (i think that's right), so when do they think the first of the great crowd rolled up?.

wizzstick

Thanks AnnOMaly - really appreciate all your support with this.

Concerning:

An earthly class did appear before then but they weren't identified with the 'great crowd' which was, back in the Russellite era, another spirit-begotten, heavenly class

Was that known as the Jonadab class?

79

When did people of the Great Crowd start to appear?

by wizzstick in

quick question, faithful followers of our treacherous hearts... .

i should know the answer to this but.... so the great crowd class were identified in 1935, but does the wt suggest when it's members first appeared on earth?

all first century christians were of the annointed (i think that's right), so when do they think the first of the great crowd rolled up?.

wizzstick

Wow. What an eye openng thread. Seriously, I've learnt more here in 24 hours, than I have in the last 25 years of being a JW.

So in JW theolgy do the 'hopes' run like this (have I got it right?):

From Abel to 33CE it's 'Other Sheep'
From 33CE - 1935 it's 'annointed only'
From 1935 to present it's two hopes 'Great crowd'* and 'annointed'

(*However great crowd is a misnomer as they are the ones that come out of the GT, and if ,for example, the GT is 100 years away then actually all who are alive today are actually other sheep without realising it.)

Is that right?

79

When did people of the Great Crowd start to appear?

by wizzstick in

quick question, faithful followers of our treacherous hearts... .

i should know the answer to this but.... so the great crowd class were identified in 1935, but does the wt suggest when it's members first appeared on earth?

all first century christians were of the annointed (i think that's right), so when do they think the first of the great crowd rolled up?.

wizzstick

Well JW's invoke the concept of "True" Christians and hold that there were very, very few of them from about the end of the 1st century on.

Of course, forgot that. But how could 144,000 (!) Christians die in Egypt alone from persecution and not be considered true Christians?

Stunning.

79

When did people of the Great Crowd start to appear?

by wizzstick in

quick question, faithful followers of our treacherous hearts... .

i should know the answer to this but.... so the great crowd class were identified in 1935, but does the wt suggest when it's members first appeared on earth?

all first century christians were of the annointed (i think that's right), so when do they think the first of the great crowd rolled up?.

wizzstick

Brilliant TD! That's the quote I needed:

"For 19 centuries there was only the one calling, the heavenly one, with Jehovah being very selective as to who would serve with his Son to make up the Kingdom government. (The Watchtower, February 15, 1982 p. 30)

Has the WT ever rescinded that view?

If not then surely their 144,000 idea doesn't stack up given the number of Christians who died in the first three centuries alone?

79

When did people of the Great Crowd start to appear?

by wizzstick in

quick question, faithful followers of our treacherous hearts... .

i should know the answer to this but.... so the great crowd class were identified in 1935, but does the wt suggest when it's members first appeared on earth?

all first century christians were of the annointed (i think that's right), so when do they think the first of the great crowd rolled up?.

wizzstick

What is seems you're looking for is when 'other sheep' started to be gathered

So just to clarify, in WT theory at Pentecost 33CE when the spirit was poured out, all there were of the annointed. And over time, as they preached to the gentiles and Jews some newbies would have become annointed and some of the other sheep and not annointed.

But I'm sure I read somewhere in a WT that basically the first century christians were thought to be of the annointed. 5,000 were added at Pentecost and another 4,000 soon after according to the Bible. So that's over 5% of the annointed right there. According to the footnote in the WT Online library on Acts 21:20 after the words 'thousands' it says “myriads; tens of thousands.”

I'm looking into how many christians died in the first few centuries, and just now found this quote on JW Facts from the WT:

"Diocletian assumed the crown A.D. 284. At first he seemed friendly to the Christians, but in the year 303 he gave in to persuasion and opened the tenth persecution, probably the most ferocious of all. Suffocation by smoke, forcible drinking of melted lead, mass drownings and burnings, breaking on the rack of men and women alike ran the empire with blood. In a single month 17,000 were slain. In the province of Egypt alone, 144,000 such professed Christians died by violence in the course of this persecution, in addition to another 700,000 who died as a result of fatigues encountered in banishment or under enforced public works." Watchtower 1951 September 1 p.518

Which is very helpful (gawd bless JW Facts).

Now that's a vast number. So at least some of the annointed would have died in that time, so if the annonited had existed since 33CE and if the memorial figures were right in the 1930s....

Nah. Doesn't stack up does it?

Oh well, that's a bit more of my faith crumbling right there.

79

When did people of the Great Crowd start to appear?

by wizzstick in

quick question, faithful followers of our treacherous hearts... .

i should know the answer to this but.... so the great crowd class were identified in 1935, but does the wt suggest when it's members first appeared on earth?

all first century christians were of the annointed (i think that's right), so when do they think the first of the great crowd rolled up?.

wizzstick

*lost*

Prologos

I too thought 'GC comes out of GT''

This is all so wacky I think I need a G&T!

Yes, re-reading the whole passage on WT Online Library it's clear that the GC are armageddon survivors. So technically they don't exist yet. So it's not possible to gauge when most Christians on earth were of the annointed and only a few were of the GC, and at what point the minority were of the annointed and when the majority were of the GC, as actually the GC won't exist till the future...

Wow. I'm stunned. The more you go down the rabbit hole the more f***ed it up it is.

79

When did people of the Great Crowd start to appear?

by wizzstick in

quick question, faithful followers of our treacherous hearts... .

i should know the answer to this but.... so the great crowd class were identified in 1935, but does the wt suggest when it's members first appeared on earth?

all first century christians were of the annointed (i think that's right), so when do they think the first of the great crowd rolled up?.

wizzstick

Quick question, faithful followers of our treacherous hearts...

I should know the answer to this but...

So the Great Crowd class were identified in 1935, but does the WT suggest when it's members first appeared on earth? All first century christians were of the annointed (I think that's right), so when do they think the first of the great crowd rolled up?

Just trying some lines of reason around how many Christians were killed in the first few centuries, and the impact that would have had on the annointed numbers, but am trying to factor in how many would have been of the great crowd.

Grief alive, in 25 years as a JW I hadn't realised how hard it is to work stuff like this out!

Many thanks in advance all.