I think this video covers off all the key points once and for all...
wizzstick
JoinedPosts by wizzstick
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Noah and the Old Testement
by wizzstick ini think this video covers off all the key points once and for all... .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3reuen54ja.
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New book - "Journey to Gods House" by Brock Talon
by AnnOMaly inthis thread's in tandem with clarity's started here in the members only section.. remember the jwn poster livingthedream from 2 years ago?
his threads often had me in stitches and he had a real knack of hooking you into the story so that you kept reading.
who of us could forget the account of the booming voice of 'god' ordering a double chocolate chip ice cream?
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wizzstick
I brought Journey To God's house the other week from Amazon. Read it, and now my wife is reading it too.
Very funny at times, very sad at others. Brilliantly captures what it like being a JW, and being at Bethel.
I was in the UK Bethel for only a short time, in 2000 so almost 30 years later. Yet in another country, and in another generation (ha!), it was still a cold place, with fruitcakes and sycophants in. Never before have I been with such a unhappy group of people. Not everyone one was of course, but you could feel it in the atmosphere.
Back to the book though. Some great stories in. The Bethel Film Night, Hanger Man and so on. God ordering ice cream. But in the end it's the same journey all of us have had. The couple who switched off as soon as they were told Brock was leaving. Oh dear, and all so true.
I'd recommend for anyone who has left the Truth, or is leaving as part of their therapy. Also for any non-JW's who want to know more about the Org.
Thanks you 'Brock' for a great read with ultimately a happy ending.
Looking forward to the sequel!
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I have often seen JW`s supposed beleif of 1925 as the end .....It`s not what I remember
by smiddy ini could be wrong of course , but as far as i recall 1925 was not the date of armageddon , but was the date the" princes of the earth" would be resurrected .
the princes of course were faithfull men of old such as abraham issac and jacob, anybody who had a prominent part in gods favour.. witnesses at assemblies after 1925 were constantly awaiting to welcome the resurrected princes of the earth up until the late 1950`s.
these faithfull resurrected men were to lead the rank and file into the glorious new system of christs thousand year reign.. smiddy.
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wizzstick
Nothing like seeing to help you believe.
Inspired by the ever lovely Blondie, and with all the power of Google...
http://yacawa.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/goldenagescan-highlight.jpg
http://www.dianedew.com/images/jwmillns.jpg
http://www.towertotruth.net/images/1920MillionsLivingp89-90.jpg
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Are Jehovah's Witnesses Scottish?
by RottenRiley inmy experience with jws, often they were very frugal and cheap, willing to use my car in field circus every weekend.
why are jehovah's witnesses so dense and obtuse when it comes to sharing costs and contributing?
has the topic of district convention 'tight-ass cheap-skating' jehovah's witnesses been talked about?
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wizzstick
Well I'm British and I have to admit all Scots I've met have been very generous!
But, to RottenRiley's point, yes many JW's are very tight. They don't offer money for petrol. I was at a stag do in a restuarant and a whole bunch of the guys legged it before the bill came round meaning others have to pay.
Where does it come from? The fact that many are in low paying jobs? The lack of geniune love and concern amongst many JW's?
Come down to 'by their fruits you with know them' I guess...
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Proof the anointed aren't being resurrected yet.....
by EndofMysteries inthe society teaches that since around 1919 the anointed who have died and do die, are resurrected as spirit creatures.
the only one to be resurrected as a spirit that is documented in the bible is jesus.
when jesus was resurrected, did he appear to his disciples yet his body was still buried?
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wizzstick
Rubbish Rattigan350.
2,520 times (which is nonsense it iself - prophetic years of 360 days, mapped to Gregorian years of 365 days) still needs to start from 537 BCE. That means your starting point is 607.
607 is nonsense.
So 1914 is not sound and falls apart with a slight prod!
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The JW cart/booth nonsense
by Gypsy Sam inhttp://www.christianpost.com/news/battle-of-beliefs-baptist-evangelist-nation-of-islam-muslim-and-jehovah-witnesses-vie-for-souls-at-new-yorks-subway-stations-112512/.
will this wake any jw's up to how they have more in common with other sects than they believe?.
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wizzstick
"From a human standpoint, we will never say that we have the right religion or that someone else has it, but we will go to the Bible, share what the Bible has to say and we'll leave it up to the individual to determine who has the truth."
What a bloody mess of a cult.
They contradict their own official website:
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I think my fade has hit a rut. Do I need to grow a pair?
by konceptual99 inso here i am after about 18 months of wake up.
the first 6 months were a rollercoster of feelings as my whole belief system unravelled.
the last year has been more stable but things seem like they are just stalling now.. my wife is aware of many of my feelings although i have held back the fact that i am pretty close to denying all belief in any kind of god.
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wizzstick
Great idea Jgnat!
Dropped you a PM Konceptual99.
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I think my fade has hit a rut. Do I need to grow a pair?
by konceptual99 inso here i am after about 18 months of wake up.
the first 6 months were a rollercoster of feelings as my whole belief system unravelled.
the last year has been more stable but things seem like they are just stalling now.. my wife is aware of many of my feelings although i have held back the fact that i am pretty close to denying all belief in any kind of god.
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wizzstick
Hi!
I half agree with Captain Obvious. Quitting ministry should have less an impact that quitting meetings, and would show to your wife this isn't a phase you're going through.
But that means you may suddenly get asked what is going at the hall, and this forum would be a good place to discuss what to say/ research what others have said. Elders are a leaky pool, so that means you may well get friends coming up to ask you what is going on. Which will create extra pressure.
So maybe scaling back this year and both fronts may help. Skip a month on ministry and cut back to 1/3 meetings (maybe just Sundays). Maybe it's also time to have a very clear conversation with your wife, that it's not that you doubt, you no longer believe. Therefore you can't be considered a spiritual head anymore. She will need to do that. But at the same time talk to her about how much you still love her, and care for her, all the things she does that you love about her. Hopefully she'll see this is not her it's about the religion.
Sadly this will be painful anyway you do this, but for your own piece of mind you may need to cut back to help you cope.
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How would you answer these questions that came to me in an email through my website? ...
by AndersonsInfo inmany emails are sent to me through my website, watchtowerdocuments.com.
all are answered.
remember 1corinthians 6: 1-2 (i'll answer this question.
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wizzstick
Some further thoughts:
12. On the issue of flip-flops and the failure of witness message of doom, it maybe due to lack of understanding of the scripture at that time. Every day, new understanding is perceived. Remember 2Peter 3:16
2 Peter 3:16 makes no mention of new understanding being percieved daily. Can you provide one example, in the 4,000 year history covered by the Bible, of one patriach, prophet, priest, king or Christian that preached or teached something as truth that then had to change it later due to new 'understanding'. That's because there isn't one! And of course why would God act like that? It makes him look like a fool!
13. The issues you highlighted on more dangers are baseless as I do not see anything wrong in being neutral in times of war or refusal to salute the flag. There are scriptural basis for it e.g. Isaiah 2: 2-4; Deuteronomy 4:16
We're writing these e-mail exchange in English. Had our forebears not shown the fortitude they did, the JW's wouldn't exist and if we ever met we may well have beeing talking in German!
Witnesses enjoy the benefits of a free society yet refuse to support that society (yet it's ok to use violence to protect ones home)
13. Talking about losing friends and family members as a result of associating with witnesses, I think there is also a scriptural basis for it. Matthew 10: 32-38; Luke 12: 52-53; 14: 25-27
Look at Jeses when his many disciplies left him ( John 6:66). Did he tell those that remained to have nothing to do with them?
There in no suggestion in scripture that family members should be shunned. Not becoming unevenly yoked with unbelievers does not mean total shunning.
14. On the issue of witness viewpoint, I think it has to do with individuals. Remember how the disciples of Christ were also seeking prominence. Matthew 18: 1-4, Luke 22: 24-27. As for me, doing God's work is most important to me. I do not seek to be elder any day and I do not look forward to it.
A noble sentiment. But before you walk down any such path examine JWfacts.com carefully.
15. On the issues of excommunication, there is a scriptural basis as well. Remember 2John 8-11
See 13. above
16. I did ask the question - Who were the true Christians after the death of the last Apostle? but I did not get any convincing answer. I decided to take it that Jehovah knows best and he will always find a way to get his purpose accomplished
Not having a answer doesn't mean that the JW's are right by default...
17. Even I have challenges with the behaviour and attitude of people in general. However, I strongly believe Jehovah will use people to reach out to the ones he has chosen without necessarily rewarding all those he may have used. That is the attitude I am using to get along and I have also somehow adopted a neutral approach to avoid being hypocritical or doing eye service. In the same breath, I decided not to take responsibilities other than preaching.
Again, that doesn't mean that the JW's are right...
18. Although, you have a thorough knowledge of the organization and scriptures than I do, I just thought to respond to you on the issues you have raised. I would have loved that you and your husband never left the organization you have dedicated so much time and energy to work with. You should have seen it as a service for Jehovah and allow the scriptures to be fulfilled regarding molesters. Remember Matthew 18: 6-11, Mark 9: 42. I may not be able to turn you back to the organization because the scriptures itself made known that it is only Jehovah that can attract someone to himself John 6:44-45
Jehovah is not using this Organisation. He can't. They're damaged goods. From false dates to false beliefs (Great Crowd go to heaven - they are not on earth, Jeses is the mediator only all man, not just the 144,000) they are wrong. Remember a little leaven ferments the whole loaf. So if any teachings are false it doesn't matter hopw much is 'right', what is wrong is the issue.
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How would you answer these questions that came to me in an email through my website? ...
by AndersonsInfo inmany emails are sent to me through my website, watchtowerdocuments.com.
all are answered.
remember 1corinthians 6: 1-2 (i'll answer this question.
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wizzstick
Hi Barbara,
Hope these thoughts may be of use to you:
4. I understand your emotional feeling as a woman regarding the molestation of teenage girls and women by members of the organization and the manner the in which the policies are applied in managing the issues, but shouldn't you have waited for Jehovah's own time? Deuteronomy 32:35
You could here point out that the way these cases were/are being handled was precisely why you started to doubt the organisation was being used by God. Would Jesus or the apostles have allowed multiple children to be abused by an elder across different congregations?
5. I understand the hypocrisy you are trying to highlight but is leaving the organization a better choice? Remember John 6: 66-70; 1Samuel 16: 7-9
So there isn't an obvious candidate for God's Organisation. Why is that a problem? Which organisation was being used by God in th 14th century? 15th? 16th? Apostate Christendom? Islam? Buddhist?
6. What is then the hope for salvation or have you believed there is no salvation for mankind?
For me Barbara I would say I don't know, but that doesn't mean the Organisation is therefore right.
7. Is your anger directed at the leaders or you have believed there should be no religion to worship God? Remember Acts 28:21
For me I believe religion is a snare and a racket...and I've read ISOCF.
9. As a man, I hate rape and child molestation, but shouldn't there be reasonable evidence to convict somebody of a crime?
Which the police are far better to find that JW's. So all cases must be brought to the police. If you found a dead body in the KH with a knife sticking out would you call the police or ring the Branch for advice? It's a no brainer surely....
10. I understand your frustration with the two witnesses account policy but if someone denies the allegation, the organization have no means of establishing the truth without adequate evidence. In this case, shouldn't you have thought that vengeance belongs to God? Remember Romans 12: 17-19; Luke 12: 52 -59
There are other ways of applying the 2 witness rule. A successful court prosecution could be considered a seperate witness to one childs abuse, (the altar in Israel was a 'witness') thus initaiting a Judicial Commitee (at least two children need to be abused under present rules).
Plus anyone who has ever abused a child must never be allowed to serve in a position of responsibilty or be alone with a child again. Ever.
11. On the issue of higher education, I do not think the organization banned members from seeking higher education. There a lot of witnesses in Nigeria that are in the higher school of learning. Except you can provide me with evidence to the contrary. What I understood was members should be careful not to be overtly pursuing higher education when they have a qualification that can provide them a basic means of sustenance e.g. if you are a degree holder, at least it could provide you a decent living so why go further when the time spent for further education can be used for God service. As an individual, I do not think anyone can talk me out of my personal dreams. The issue in religion I see amongst people generally is the application of the doctrines. Some are bigots while others are liberal.
Just point out that the level of education needed varies from country to country varies and as the scriptures have no clear guidelines on this then this should be a conscience matter.
