there is no end to their madness.
the co gave a talk on inspired error.
i have never heard of it.
1. The MEDIA: articles in the newspaper about Jw's are not truth, what they say on the internet about jw is not the truth. These are inspired expressions of error. Stay away from newspapers and news on the internet.
Evil! They are all eviiilll...
Unless, of course, it's a fine account by the RC PR brothers. Then this encouraging report in the media will demonstrate how Jehovah's reaching peoples hearts.
How happyifing to see SATAN'S media making such a sweet smelling aroma.
in short:- tight pants is no longer just a am3 hang up (or is that a hang up on the well hung?
)- brothers who have effeminate body language are flagged up- as are sisters with 'masculine' hair styles or dress- such dress is 'disturbing to the congregation'- the above must heed the (repeated) counsel from the elders...or they get stripped of the right to share on the ministry- however...this will not be revealed (announced) to the congregation.
wow.
That hardly seems like the smoking gun of an authoritarian regime and I think if you try and sell it to people as such they will come away with the impression that the WTS / JWs are good christian folk and we're a bunch of unreasonable, fault-finding nutters.
Firstly, this is an organization that already has a dress code. It bangs on about modesty, it expects people to wear suits to meetings just to worship God and so on.
This new rule is intrusive and vague. And given elders are often (read the postings from recipients on here) petty, love any chance to lord it up over others and like to make their own rules up, what do you think will happen?
What, precisely, is 'extremes' of this world?
What, precisely, is 'repeated counsel? One previous chat? Two?
Why the lack of announcement of not being allowed on the ministry? Hardly transparent is it?
Has anyone on this thread suggested this is some 'smoking gun of authoritarian regime'? I've not seen it if they have. But it is yet another example (of many) of them being such a regime.
To end on a positive note, personally I see this as a good move. To younger JW's it will help them see the Org as petty, controlling and restrictive and to any would be new recruits it will equally show them how controlling the Org is.
To misquote Princess Leia "The more you tighten your grip, the more will slip through your fingers".
in short:- tight pants is no longer just a am3 hang up (or is that a hang up on the well hung?
)- brothers who have effeminate body language are flagged up- as are sisters with 'masculine' hair styles or dress- such dress is 'disturbing to the congregation'- the above must heed the (repeated) counsel from the elders...or they get stripped of the right to share on the ministry- however...this will not be revealed (announced) to the congregation.
wow.
And the punishment is....??? Did I miss something?
"Brother, you act like a sissy. From now on you get to sleep in on Saturdays."
Well quite!
But it does through up a bizarre idea of people who are JW's but who can't witness.
in short:- tight pants is no longer just a am3 hang up (or is that a hang up on the well hung?
)- brothers who have effeminate body language are flagged up- as are sisters with 'masculine' hair styles or dress- such dress is 'disturbing to the congregation'- the above must heed the (repeated) counsel from the elders...or they get stripped of the right to share on the ministry- however...this will not be revealed (announced) to the congregation.
wow.
In short:
- Tight pants is no longer just a AM3 hang up (or is that a hang up on the well hung?)
- Brothers who have effeminate body language are flagged up
- As are sisters with 'masculine' hair styles or dress
- Such dress is 'disturbing to the congregation'
- The above must heed the (repeated) counsel from the elders...or they get stripped of the right to share on the ministry
- HOWEVER...this will not be revealed (announced) to the congregation
Wow. So any gay/lesbian/bi/transgender JW's or simply people wanting to dress differently had better watch out! And if they don't heed repeated counsel they get stripped off being able to go the ministry (so effectively no longer a JW) but the congregation isn't told this.
What?
This is a new one on me. I can't help but think that this is to avoid being accused of hate speech against LGBT people. With real problems in the world being addressed by secular authorities and the world getting better and better place to live in what does the WT do? This crap.
More here:
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/the-tight-pants-rule-wearing-disturbing-clothing-gets-you-banned-from-preaching
In tribute to AM3, I'm now humming the Boys and Girls Blur song, Girls who are boys, Who like boys to be girls, Who do boys like they're girls, Who do girls like they're boys...
you see ive started dating this girl and her family is of strong jehova belief.
now i am not i do see certain things in there studie that is true in my opinion but ive never really been a religion type of person.
i think i want to marry her but i am not a jehovas witness and am not looking to be anytime at all she says that is ok and we can still get married but i dont know how its possible or where we would even do it please i need advice
she says her church would excommunicate her or something like that and she says she does not care she loves me but im afraid of the fact how wiill we get married
You're right. The pressure will pile up when you get married.
Ask her to live you you before marriage. If she will live with you then that might be a good sign, you can keep reminding her how you won't become a JW until hopefully she stops.
But if she won't live with you, then she is committed JW. She will pressure you once you are married.
you see ive started dating this girl and her family is of strong jehova belief.
now i am not i do see certain things in there studie that is true in my opinion but ive never really been a religion type of person.
i think i want to marry her but i am not a jehovas witness and am not looking to be anytime at all she says that is ok and we can still get married but i dont know how its possible or where we would even do it please i need advice
i am not a jehovas witness and am not looking to be anytime at all she says that is ok and we can still get married
Welcome!
The above won't work out. She might be saying that now, but once you're married then that will change. You'll get pressured into becoming a Jehovah's Witness.
What about blood transfusions? Do you know if you are a Jehovah's Witness and have a major accident you are not allowed blood transfusions? Or that your wife will refuse them and would rather die?
Go to JW Facts to learn more about this cult.
Your instincts are you telling you something is wrong. Listen to them!
for those interested in the fall and rise of jerusalem in 587bce tel aviv university are offering a short 6 week online course through coursera in october 2014.. i have done a couple of coursera courses, they are always of the highest quality put together by scholars of whatever the subject matter is about.
universities tend to offer these as tasters and short introductions into their specialities.. you can get the information on the following link the fall and rise of jerusalem | coursera.
emory university are also offering a course through coursera on the bible's prehistory, purpose, and political future starting may 26th the bible's prehistory, purpose, and political future | coursera.
This free course is re-starting on 18th October:
The Fall and Rise of Jerusalem (Cousera)
Sign up, download the App and then you download weekly content thereafter. Week 5 looks interesting...
Week Five - Archaeology of the sixth century BCE.
I've signed up - anyone else?
what is a cult and what is a religion?
its open to debate.
who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?
Look how cunningly they word their article:
Some think of a cult as being a dangerous religious sect with a human leader. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not look to any human as their leader.
No - instead JW's wax lyrical about the Governing Body. They look to a group of men as leaders, not one.
what is a cult and what is a religion?
its open to debate.
who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?
And what does your post show?
Does it mention disfellowshipping? The massive impact it has on individuals?
Does it explain how hard it is to leave?
That once baptised you are under the control of the elders. If they hear about something that you've allegedly done you can be called into a Judicial Committee. At ANY age?
That they can decide that a medical procedure is against God's Law (all blood products) then later change there mind (saying some procedures are conscience matters). How may people have died because of a man made doctrine?
No - like all cults it doesn't talk about all the damage. Just hyperbole.
what is a cult and what is a religion?
its open to debate.
who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?
This has been posted before but its relevant information concerning mind control tactics and defining what is
a recognized cult. .......... by Steve Hassan
I've highlighted specific elements pertaining to the JWS
1. Regulate individual’s physical reality
2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates
3. When, how and with whom the member has sex
4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles
5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting
6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep
7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence
8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time
9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
10. Permission required for major decisions
11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors
12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
14. Impose rigid rules and regulations
15. Instill dependency and obedienceInformation Control
1. Deception:
a. Deliberately withhold information
b. Distort information to make it more acceptable
c. Systematically lie to the cult member
2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
b.Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking
3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible
b.Control information at different levels and missions within group
c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when
4. Encourage spying on other members
a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group
5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including:
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media
b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memoriesThought Control
1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality
b. Instill black and white thinking
c. Decide between good vs. evil
d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
2.Change person’s name and identity
3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words
4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts
5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member
6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created
7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in tongues
f. Singing or humming
8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed
10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not usefulEmotional Control
1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish
2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt
3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault
4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
a. Identity guilt
b. You are not living up to your potential
c. Your family is deficient
d. Your past is suspect
e. Your affiliations are unwise
f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
g. Social guilt
h. Historical guilt
5. Instill fear, such as fear of:
a. Thinking independently
b. The outside world
c. Enemies
d. Losing one’s salvation
e. Leaving or being shunned by the group
f. Other’s disapproval
6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner
7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins
8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc.
c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll
e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family
I think the post by Finkelstein clearly shows that the JW's are a cult.
For me, the difference between a cult and religions comes down this. What happens to you when you you want to leave? Can you leave with no impact on your family relationships? Are families discouraged from associating with those who have left?
When people leave the Church of England there are no consequences. The same could hardly be said of JW's.
