Posts by stev

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

stev

I am posting this because it gives the year 1869, which is earlier than 1870 ( which might have been only approximate), when Russell claimed that he heard Jonas Wendell, the Adventist preacher. These views are Age-to-Come views, and as far as I know were NOT teachings of the Advent Christian Church (or Second Adventists). He would have been only 17 years old in 1869, and it is likely that someone that young had a mentor that personally was acquainted with him who influenced him. Could this have been Conley? I do seem to remember a series of articles in the Herald of Life on this subject in 1869.

Anyway, it hints that Russell had a continuing relationship from early on after hearing Wendell with individual(s) who had Adventist connections. Stetson did not appear in Pittsburgh until 1871. I think the members of that early Bible class are the likely candidates. Was Conley a early source of Adventist contacts for the Russells?

Steve

From What Pastor Russell Taught, page 327.

This light was lost sight of during the Gospel
age, and now this is the particular thought brought to your
attention, namely: That Christ the head and the Church
his body, is the great anti-typical Moses, the great Prophet
God has been raising up, through which the blessing is to
come to Israel, and through Israel to all the nations (Acts
3:22,23.) Christ is the head, and through the members of
his Elect is to bless Israel and all the nations. When did
this feature of light come to our attention? It came to my
attention in 1869. I was thinking along these lines, seeing
that our friends in the churches were wrong, and seeing
the second coming of Christ was the thing to be expected,
and along about 1873 I got so far as to see that there was
restitution coming to the world, but I did not understand
what restitution meant. I supposed that when the world
was blessed it would come to be in the same sort of
spiritual condition as the Church, and not until 1878 did
the light of that feature come, in respect to the fact that the
Church is to be of a separate and distinct nature, and is to
be used by the Lord in blessing Israel and through them
blessing all the nations.

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

stev

Russell denied he was ever an Adventist

From the Question Book, page 607

RUSSELL, PASTOR--Re Membership in Nominal Churches. ::Q607:1:: QUESTION (1911)--l--Did you ever belong to the Adventist church? Some say you did, and some say you left for a reason. If so, please say what.

ANSWER. --I never belonged to any church except the Lord's and the Congregationalists. I was a Congregationalist, and in my endeavor to be faithful I was trying to convert an infidel, and I did not convert him, but while trying to do so, I got enough new thoughts into my head to give me a lot of trouble; and finally, I became an infidel, and was about a year in that condition. I still worshiped God, but not recognizing the Bible, and not knowing if Christ were my redeemer. I still, nevertheless, continually went to God in prayer and asked for guidance and finally, in God's providence I came to see clearer light on the divine Word. I never was an Adventist--excepting that I believe in the advent of our Lord- -very glad to believe our Lord is to come again to receive the church to himself. But I never believed that about the world being burned up, nor any other things of that kind that constitute special features of the Adventist belief.

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

stev

We have little information from Conley on what his beliefs were, so there might not be enough information on Conley to determine what his role was in the history. I seem to recall that his name occurs in the Adventist papers, like the Advent Christian Times, and the World's Crisis, in connection with the Adventist church in the Pittsburgh area in the 1870's.
So these questions about Conley could be extended to that Bible study Class of Conley and the Russells.
What did they study? (Storrs' Bible Examiner?)
What was the relationship between that Advent Christian church, and their Bible class?
Were they the same? (Not likely)
Did the Russells and Conley attend both meetings? ( I think this is likely).
How long?
Did the Russells ever join that Advent Christian Church in Pittsburgh? (probably not).
Was Conley an Advent Christian?

Russell very early rejected the burning of the world view of the Second Adventists. The Age-to-Come Adventists also rejected the burning of the world. So it is likely that Russell came in contact with Age-to-Come Adventists, perhaps in Allegheny. Conley might have been this contact.
There are references to J.L. Russell in the Adventist papers as early as 1869, which is before the date 1870 that C. T. Russell gave for meeting Jonas Wendell.
Was Russell's father first acquainted with Adventism?
In another place, Russell gives the year 1869 when came to the view that Christ, Head and Body, would bless the world. This also is before 1870.
This seems to hint at a very early personal influence on Russell who believed similarly, perhaps Conley.
Storrs had been editor of the Herald of Life, the paper of the Life and Advent Union until 1871. Many years ago, I had the issues of the pertinent years, and recall that there was a reader in the Pittsburgh area whose letters were appeared in the paper.
I vaguely recall that there was also a series of articles on Christ, Head and Body blessing the world.
Was Russell's Bible class at first associated with Storrs' Life and Advent Union?
The Adventist church in the Pittsburgh area advertised themselves as the Church of God. This might indicate that there were Age-to-Come influences in that church. Stetson's church in Ohio was also called the Church of God. Both Stetson and Storrs had Age-to-Come views.
Russell played down the influence that the Second Adventists (the Advent Christian Church) had in his views. He acknowledged Jonas Wendell, and told the story of how he came to that hall and heard him. But he does not mention any continuing relationship with that church though, and the reader could get the impression that this was a one-time occurrence, but this is not likely because Stetson was the pastor of the church in the early 1870s. Stetson requested that Russell preach his funeral sermon.
It appears that in the 1870s the boundary lines between the different Adventist groups were not yet clearly drawn.

Steve

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

stev

Here are several links to Peters' book. Peters was a great researcher, and cites and critiques many views on prophecy, even though obscure. He intended to be encyclopedic in scope. He refers to Barbour and Russell, Storrs, Wendell, and other Adventist writers. He critiques Barbour and Russell, and quotes from Barbour's Herald, and The Three Worlds. Perhaps Russell was lukewarm in his endorsement of the book in The Watch Tower, because he was acquainted with the criticisms. Did Conley provide him an advance copy of the book? Was Russell aware of the criticisms before he endorsed it?

A reading of the book will show that, although Barbour and Russell had their idiosyncratic views, especially that the presence had occurred in 1874, which Peters denied (because the rapture had not taken place, and their dogmatic prophetic chronology) , nevertheless they had much in common with the expectations of others. Peters agreed with them that Christ would return invisibly and secretly to rapture the saints, followed by a visible manifestation later (Russell later gave up the idea of a visible manifestation) . Peters expected an interval of time between the two events.

Although it is recognized that Barbour and Russell drew from the views of William Miller, they were also influenced by the dispensationalists of the time. They combined Millerism with Dispensationalism.

Peters also contributed to the Prophetic Times, of which Joseph Seiss was editor.

Steve

http://www.swrc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_26_41&products_id=242

Author: George N. H. Peters

The Theocratic Kingdom may well be called the most exhaustive, thoroughly annotated and logically arranged study of Biblical prophecy that appeared during the 19th century. A 3 volume set with nearly 2000 pages, it stands as a testament to the thorough research and exhaustive commentary presented by George Peters.

thetheocratickingdom.lbgo.com

The Theocratic Kingdom

This WebSite is specifically dedicated to George Peters work, The Theocratic

Kingdom and includes the only critique of his work that I am aware of.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0825435404/qid=1130962602/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-8453101-7043155?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

stev

Here is a quote from Watch Tower, May 1883. Russell mentions Peters as an old acquaintance and friend, which implies that he had known him for some time. How did the two become acquainted? Peters was a Lutheran minister. If Conley was still the president at that time, and also financed Peters' book, it is possible that Conley introduced Russell to Peters. Russell's endorsement of the book is lukewarm, and perhaps he endorsed it at Conley's request.

THE THEOCRATIC KINGDOM. Brother G. N. H. Peters, of Springfield, Ohio, is an old acquaintance and friend. He is a believer in the redemptive work of Christ, and hence a Christian brother. He is a believer in the future reign of Christ and the saints, for which cause sake he has suffered the loss of some things--some of the esteem of the nominal church. We regret to have it to state, however, that he is not free from Babylon's shackles, being yet identified with the Lutheran sect--hence has been hindered from a fuller development in grace and knowledge of the word and plan of God than if he stood in the full liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free.

Eschatology, entitled --"THE THEOCRATIC KINGDOM." It treats of the kingdom of God to be established, from the standpoint known as "Pre-millenarian." It gives voluminous reports of the hundreds of views entertained on this subject--advocating in the main the so-called "Pre-millenarian" view. While the author does not ignore the teachings of the Apostles, he lays greater stress and value on the opinions of the "Fathers" (the Christian teachers of the first five centuries) than we could acknowledge as proper.

in advance to justify, then that will be the price.

recommend it to you more than as above, to briefly state the facts and circumstances, yet if you should conclude to order it or a prospectus of it you should address our brother and friend as above.

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

stev

West70

I posted the TKC quote because it was pertinent to "Food" and its cost., and not to make a point.

The quote states that "Food" "pointed out the date of the close of that high-calling as October, 1881." I searched it but could not find where it clearly is stated. The expectations that Russell had for 1881 surely motivated the publication and distribution of "Food" . One of the headings mentions the "rapture of the church." Russell rarely used this word to mean the saints being taken to heaven, but it thus used here. He changed his views on the rapture after "Food".

Here is the pdf file for "Food for Thinking Christians"

http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/russell/z81sep.pdf

Steve

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

stev

From Thy Kingdom Come, page 367:

*Although we had not thought of the coincidence until now, while writing this chapter, it is not a little remarkable that it was during the last six months of the year 1881 that Food for Thinking Christians, a book of 166 pages, was issued, and circulated to the extent of one million four hundred thousand copies throughout the United States and Great Britain.

Three items connected with that book and its wide and sudden distribution contribute to mark it as at least peculiar: (1) Perhaps no other book ever reached so large a circulation in so brief a space of time, or by the same methods. It was distributed gratuitously at the church doors in all the largest cities of the United States and Great Britain by the messenger boys of the District Messenger Service on three successive Sundays, and in the smaller towns through the mails. (2) The money to defray this expense ($42,000) was voluntarily donated for the purpose, without solicitation. (3) It was, so far as we know, the first book ever published which pointed out the distinction between the high calling of the Gospel Church and the Restitution favors for the world in general, and it pointed out the date of the close of that high calling as October, 1881.

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

stev

Russell was expecting the translation (rapture) of the saints in 1881. Perhaps Conley was motivated to donate his money with the expectation that it would further the distribution of "Food for Thinking Christians" which would reach the remaining 144,000 to harvest them beforehand. When the rapture did not take place that year, perhaps Conley was disappointed. The split of Russell and Paton occurred around that time too. This is just speculation, but for some reason, it appears that Conley did lose interest.

Steve

16

What happened on October 31, 1916?

by blondie in

jw
friends

.

while on a lecture tour of the midwestern and southern parts of the us, 89 years ago, charles taze russell died on a train in pampa,texas, at the age of 64 (picture of him in 1916 below).. .

stev

Today is October 31. The date October 31, 1916 is one of the turning points of the Watchtower history - the death of Russell. Russell was considered by some, if not most of the Bible Students, to be "that faithful and wise servant." So his death created a emotional vacuum as well as a power vacuum. Russell had intended in his Will and Testament for the Society to be run by the Board of Directors. Russell encouraged the democracy of the ecclesias, however much of the power of the business corporation of the Society resided in himself. It is likely that the Board never had much power when he was alive, so that the Board would have lacked the experience that would have prepared them to manage the affairs of the Society after his death. This balance of power between the democratically-run ecclesias and the autocratically-run Society was upset by Russell's death. This was folloed by a power struggle between Rutherford and the ecclesias, and there were entire ecclesias that left because they would not allow Rutherford to extend his control into their sphere.

Russell also left behind many unanswered questions caused by his own speculations about the future. The departure of the church to heaven had not come by 1914, and he used the story of Elijah and Elisha to speculate on how this might happen in the future. It was expected that he would give the penny in the parable of the penny, and that he would write another volume. Shortly before he died, he set the date of 1918. The world war had started, and he expected it to lead to revolution and anarchy. But he died, and his followers were left confused. This confusion created divisions and even more speculations as ones tried to make sense of it. This resulted in the split of the Bible Students and the Society, which later lead to the JWs.

Steve

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

stev

West70:

I don't know the answer to your questions. But I do recall reading some years ago A Conspiracy Exposed, which was Russell's defense against his accusers in the mid-1890s. There he explained he sold his clothing store business, and he gave the year - sometime around 1881. He gives the dollar figure, which I recall was around $300, 000. He had considered what course of action he might take with the money, and realized that if he donated all the money at once, he would need to work again to earn money. He thought it better if he invested the principal, and lived off the interest of his investment, so that he could devote his time to his religious work. He could be considered a professional investor. Perhaps someone could post this pertinent section of A Conspiracy Exposed. This might explain why he could not donate more in 1881-1884.

The financial dealings as you describe are quite complicated. No doubt there were accounting and business reasons for doing it the way he did with different companies. He probably did the bookkeeping and accounting himself. Mrs. Russell complained she never once saw the books while she was secy/treasurer. He must have done it himself. He probably had a sixth sense about money.

Steve