Posts by SimonSays

16

Jesus not perfect and here's why.

by Crazyguy in

the bible is a inspired book of god and like and elder told me when i was young , there's no contradictions in the bible and all the prophecies have come true except the two or three that are supposed to come true in the future.

so with that said the messiah jesus christ himself must not be perfect and here's why.

in mark chapter 2 jesus is telling his followers that it's ok to pick wheat on the sabbath and mentions the story about david eating bread that was in the holy place ment only for the priests to use.

SimonSays

The narrative at Mark 2:23-38 may be a polemic interpolation.

Perhaps you meant 23-28.

The best example of this was in the cited text on Mark 2:28 --- KJV Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. NAS Mark 2:28 "Consequently, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Who was Jesus speaking to? The Pharisees. The people who knew the law, but used it to benefit themselves, by refusing to acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah, therefore NOT accepting the abolishment of certain commandments, thus not willing to relinquish their authority to a higher authority which was Jesus. It doesn’t take a Ph.D. to use common sense in biblical matters.

So, the fallacy is within one’s interpretation of scripture, NOT scripture itself. JW’s have no problem understanding the significance of the Sabbath. However, Christendom as a whole does, as they revere the Sabbath alongside the Jews. The best example of that was and is the “BLUE LAW” the Sunday law enacted in the USA by the Puritans as early as 1677 and ironically still in use today by unwittingly people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_laws_in_the_United_States

*** w09 6/1 pp. 22-23 Does God Change His Mind? ***

Why Was Sabbath-Keeping Temporary?

God instituted the observance of a weekly Sabbath after he delivered the Israelites from Egypt. He later made it part of their national Law. (Exodus 16:22-30; 20:8-10) The apostle Paul explained that Jesus offered himself as a sacrifice and “abolished... the Law of commandments consisting in decrees” and “blotted out the handwritten document.” (Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:14) What was “abolished” and “blotted out” included the Sabbath law, for the Bible goes on to say: “Therefore let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a Sabbath.” (Colossians 2:16) Why did God give the Law, including the Sabbath, in the first place?

The apostle Paul wrote: “The Law has become our tutor leading to Christ.” Then he added: “Now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor.” (Galatians 3:24, 25) Rather than changing his mind, God used the Sabbath as a temporary arrangement to teach people that they should regularly take time to meditate on spiritual matters. Although the Sabbath law was temporary, it pointed forward to the time when mankind would find lasting rest from physical and spiritual afflictions. —Hebrews 4:10; Revelation 21:1-4.

50

Elder asking for help

by untruth in

this is my first time posting on here so i’m not sure where to start.

i’m trying to keep it as short as possible since i could expand much more.

i’ve been in the process of waking up in the last year and a half.

SimonSays

I would take an interest in JW history. Many JW's collect the old books and photo's of Bro Russel or Rutherford. Find the one about Beth Sarim with Rutherford sitting outside his mansion waiting for the prophets of old to be resurrected to live with him in California. Give a little laugh and say "i wonder why Jehovah told him that".

If you ask any Bible Student anything to do with JW’s they most likely will agree with you. So Beth Sarim is a none starter. JW’s are already hip to the notion the house was built by Bible Student to help Rutherford with his health issues, that he contracted by being thrown in prison by Fascist Catholics that incited the government to charge the Bible Student leaders with sedition.

The erred perception that he built it for what he stated in his book “millions now living will never die” was the icing opposers needed to discredit his purpose of wanting to give “hope” to “millions now living” at that time for a better world, “if” the prospect of the ancients such as Moses, Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac would return (Resurrected) would, therefore, afford of “never” having to “die”, since the world would have gone into the millennial reign. For people just coming out of a world war, to them, it might have sounded good. Perhaps too much wishful thinking, but would have been nice for them.

But that would be something the Bible Students would have to answer. JW’s interest is after 1931.

Just curious, though. What would someone that dedicated half their life to honor their creator, then suddenly get tired? How would you see life, if you had signs of the 4 horsemen being released, let’s say by 2017? What then. I can see a Witness turn atheist as thousands have since they feel if the WTS was the ultimate truth, then…there is no other, since the rest of Christendom isn’t that zealous. What would the reaction be?

43

Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

my friends,.

what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.

SimonSays

Oops! You sure did. Seems like the same video being circulated again. From when, 2009. My Catholic friend acknowledged it was a propaganda scheme from the government to discourage their citizens from becoming JW’s. They confiscated the hall for the purpose of raising the flag, as conquers do with their conquest. I wonder whose hand is on the Puppet if not the Vatican. Since they are making every effort to discourage Catholics from converting.

Same ploy in Mexico. Humorous never the less.

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

Jesus said that his disciples would be recognized by their love, how loving are any of the actions listed above? DD

Wouldn’t that also, disqualify you as a self-absorbed idealist? However, thank you for finally answering my question with “honesty”. When commenters resort to fact finding, without the proper foundation of knowledge? (Understanding), then undoubtedly, it loses credibility. Something that JWleaks, JWfacts, etc., have relied on to deceive the public for a decade or so. That in itself is flawed. We can continue to discuss one in others opinions to no fruitful end, as it would be a, futile gesture; when we can’t reach common ground on the concept of having to alter, rethink, and misrepresent actual “facts”.

(Geoffrey Jackson’s sworn testimony, wherein he states that claiming to be the sole channel of God is arrogant.) DD

Even with a trifle view, on misrepresentation. It definitely is, a sharp contrast to your own very words and understanding, Jackson’s claimed to be, don’t you think? Just another example of the foreseen.

Royal Commission Case 29:

42 RC-Stewart: Q. Do you, as members of the Governing Body, regard 43 yourselves as being appointed by Jehovah God or under the 44 capacity or authority of Jehovah God?

45 GB-Jackson: A. what we view ourselves, as fellow workers with our 46 brothers and sisters ‐ we have been given a responsibility 47 to guard or to be guardians of doctrine. So just the same 1 with elders, they are referred to as being appointed by 2 holy spirit, as you probably are aware, we believe that 3 means that when an elder is in harmony with what the Bible 4 says is required of an elder, then he is appointed by the 5 holy spirit. So the same is true with the Governing Body.

7 RC-Stewart: Q. So where it is said that the faithful and discreet 8 slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers, are 9 we to understand the belief behind that being that you are 10 anointed by the holy spirit?

11 GB-Jackson: A. that is correct. But if I could just enlarge on that, 12 there are many anointed Jehovah's Witnesses who do not 13 serve on the Governing Body.

15 RC-Stewart: Q. and that would include all the elders around the 16 world; would that be right?

17 GB-Jackson: A. No, that is not correct. The anointing process that 18 we are referring to is referred to in the book of Romans, 19 chapter 8, where it speaks of a heavenly calling. So the

20 majority of Jehovah's Witnesses hope to live in a paradise 21 earth, whereas those who have been selected by means of 22 holy spirit have a hope to live in heaven ‐ to go to heaven 23 when they die, in other words.

25 RC-Stewart: Q. Mr. Jackson, is that the 144,000 that is referred to?

26 GB-Jackson: A. Ultimately, in the book of Revelation, chapter 14, it 27 refers to the total number being 144,000.

29 RC-Stewart: Q. Does the Governing Body, or do the members of the 30 Governing Body ‐ do you see yourselves as modern‐day 31 disciples, the modern‐day equivalent of Jesus's disciples?

32 GB-Jackson: A. We certainly hope to follow Jesus and be his 33 disciples.

35 RC-Stewart: Q. and do you see yourselves as Jehovah God's 36 spokespeople on earth?

37 GB-Jackson: A. That I think would seem to be quite presumptuous to 38 say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using. 39 The scriptures clearly show that someone can act in harmony 40 with God's spirit in giving comfort and help in the 41 congregations, but if I could just clarify a little, going 42 back to Matthew 24, clearly, Jesus said that in the last 43 days ‐ and Jehovah's Witnesses believe these are the last 44 days ‐ there would be a slave, a group of persons who would 45 have responsibility to care for the spiritual food. So in 46 that respect, we view ourselves as trying to fulfil that47 role.

14/08/2015 (155)

Quote from book of Joseph Farinaccio: Can All Views Be True?

Is it possible for Christians to claim that their belief system is true? Is the very claim itself an example of

Religious intolerance? Most public discussion of religion in contemporary culture is overshadowed by the notion that anyone may hold religious views as long as they do not say others are inferior. All belief systems make truth-claims. Truth-claims by their very nature imply that contrary assertions are false.

It is impossible for two genuinely opposite truth-claims to be simultaneously true. Although the law of contradiction may not be popular when applied to religious beliefs, it is still undeniable “that two

Antithetical propositions cannot both be true at the same time and in the same sense. X cannot be

Non-X. A thing cannot be and not be simultaneously. And nothing that is true can be self-contradictory or inconsistent with any other truth. All logic depends on this simple principle. Rational thought and meaningful discourse demand it.”

Thank you again, for allowing me to participate on this discussion. You can sum up and continue without further interruptions.

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

Uhhhh..... I said, "doctrinal revisions......Old Testament.." Then you mention the NT and Jesus as an indication that I am operating under some misunderstanding DD

I came to the discussion to understand, what definitive “proof” JWleaks had on knowing how he came to the specific conclusion the JW’s “DOESN'T” receive “GODS” Holy Spirit. I simply asked to show this monumental revelation, that’s all.

However, as yourself. It appears, this community lacks self-control, when someone asks a question. A question that has not been answered, but has been meet with various opinions and rhetoric. That’s’ unfortunate, since I keep explaining my intent of not wishing to argue, but; it falls on deaf ears.

DD. I never intended to debate your understanding of scripture. We all have our own fundamental beliefs. Your statement did pique my interest from the erred understanding you have about the OT, when I mentioned the Israelites and all the revisions (Adjustments) they had to go through. As you stated, your view is doctoral. Keep in mind that, the laws that governed Gods people was directed to the “Prophets” so in turn would be translated to the Kings. So any knew light would be given to the king of the land, verbally. You obscure you knowledge from direct commands to textbook. That is a flawed view. Also, when I mentioned Jesus, of course that would mean the NT, and my point was, the biggest revision that Jesus made was to change the “Mosaic Law”. OT. However, since my question will not be answered, you guys have a good day. You can make any comments to justify your understandings. Remember we all have the right to give opinions. Or at least, I’d like to think so.

DD> when you have a chance, read: Voices of Twelve Hebrew Prophets. Just in case you think I’m trying to distort bible truth, to sway the way of the WTS. This of course is not a WTS “publication”. I didn’t intend to preach or mark time. With me, that’s never the case, just knowledge.

8

INTRODUCTORY

Prophets. Whereas their messages were for the age in which they were delivered, they all breathed the spirit of eternal things. In the series of sermons now beginning we shall

Attempt to show how the messages delivered by these men in the long ago, have a direct bearing upon life at all times, and so necessarily upon our own times. The period of the history of Israel which was specifically and especially that of the prophet lasted for about

Five hundred years, from the beginning of the ninth to the beginning of the fourth centuries

B.C. After that there was no prophetic voice until that of John the

Baptist. The prophetic gift, of course, had occurred occasionally long before the period referred to. Peter in the message of the Lesson, said, “All the prophets”

From Samuel, thus going back far from the period to which we are now referring. During this period, however, these prophets were in the Divine economy, the authoritative voices, dictating

Terms to kings, upbraiding the failing people, and indicating what their true line of policy and of activity should be. These Hebrew prophets ever kept before the people the supreme fact that the Hebrew nation was a Theocracy, and that it was a nation created to live among the other nations, a revelation of what it means to have God as actual Ring. The nation was purely and simply a

Theocracy under Moses, and through the period of the Judges. Then there came the hour of the fall of the nation from Theocracy to monarchy. The “word” “revision” “new light” then, honestly applies. When understanding scripture.

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

Then you speak of "ancient times" and revisions?? What are you talking about? Name one, just one doctrinal revision in ancient times that was enacted by the nation of Israel. Name just one changed teaching in the OT that the Israelites could have stagnated on? There were none.DD

Now you’re just pandering, but expected. The lack of knowledge, is the day you misunderstood, the biggest revision in Christendom of them all, Jesus Christ. Perhaps you would like to revisit the OT to confirm this, with Jesus making changes, if not eliminating the” Mosaic Law” The difference, they saw it and it was passed by word of mouth and personal actions, back then.

Can we say the same in modern times? No! Humanity has fallen further from the truth and imperfection. However, you are correct, you cannot compare apples and oranges when it comes to bible truth. The same difference JW’s started calling themselves differently. If you speak to a modern day bible student, as I have, they will deny JW’s doctrine, so would it be so different to expect the same? Consider speaking to one someday, their all over the world. They also have District conventions, they also celebrate everything Christendom does. I have one as a friend, just like friends of any other religion. Perhaps if you set your anger aside, you’ll be able to see the flaws in your logic. Maybe someday you’ll learn how off the mark you are, but in the meantime, please continue your hostility, I don’t mind. Like I said, I didn’t come here to debate how we “ALL” lack knowledge when it comes to bible truth, But Gods asks us to try. So why don’t we. Why hasn’t Christendom taken the calling like the WTS? My sole interest was in the Claim to personally now God’s HS and the Direction God takes, in applying it. But as in everything Christendom, it boils down to “Faith”. Remember, Every Religion has chastised the WTS, So, you cannot criminalize the WTS, That logic, is also flawed. Starting with Russell, when they came out, calling him a Charlatan, but then, so do you guys, it’s no different. That’s why I don’t dismiss his core value.

Again, Thank You. DD

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

As far as revision of beliefs is concerned, when you aren't making shit up, you don't have to back-track. Many xian denominations never revise anything. Why? They have never claimed to have all the answers, or be the one true religion, or degraded every other faith like the WTBTS. DD

Well, this would make it, your strong personal opinion; wouldn’t it? But in all “honesty” a false premise since all religions have a strong belief, God’s Holy Spirit flows in them.

Example 1: http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-divinity-of-the-holy-spirit

Just this one. I don’t need emotions to cloud my judgement. The only religions that I know of, that don’t depend on God’s HS are, Scientology, Jainism, which is tied to atheism, and just a few more. Your own reasoning is flawed when you stipulate other religions don’t express their own true divinity. The WTS just makes it available to the public, since they have nothing to hide. Following this topic. I believe that is the point, I’m making about the WTS Publications. Nothing religiously new.

In ancient times, how many revisions did the Israelites have to go through, every time they sinned? Did God allow his chosen people to stagnate on it understanding? (Correction) Once again, let’s not let emotion carrying us off to just drastic opinions. What I was referring to, was substance on the claim of knowing definitively how, you presume to know about God’s HS, and where he directs his HS to whom. That is my simple interest.

If you can’t answer the question, then simply don’t. I’m didn’t come into your debate to argue. You guys enjoy your day. Thank you

I would much prefer that you tell us about your friendship with Ray Franz and why you believe he wanted to go back to the ways of Rutherford. Listener

Perhaps one day you will read about it. As for now, well it seems DD got temperamental, and that was not my objective. Best to You!!!!!!!!

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

Simon says, please prove that the holy spirit is not with the Mormons or Ray Franz.Listener

In my personal opinion, I can’t. Just, like I can’t prove Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith in the desert, back in the 1800 hundreds to give him personal revelation. I also can’t personally prove, that the Pontiff has a personal conversation with God every morning at first light. Even though, Ray was a dear friend, he allowed his emotions, to lose focus on biblical understanding, since it hurt him that his good buddy was fellowshipped. That was Satan doing. Can I prove it? Well unless I write down my memories, I could explain his devotion to his friend. And how he lost sight, in his belief; because of it. I could also explain, how Ray wanted the WTS returned to the days of Rutherford. Aside from that, no! But then again, I don’t pretend to, and that still doesn’t answer my question. Can you personal make a claim you’re sure, Jesus met Smith? Let’s not use conjecture on why the WTS makes comparison on why they believe Christendom is flawed with certain views, just as Russell and Rutherford voiced their concern, why Christendom was erred about “Hellfire” back then. Let’s not use verse psychology, it’s not about me. My Question is to you all. Practice what you preach, so to speak!

If, that be the case, we would have to revisit the entire history of man. Was the first humans righteous or unjust, so forth and so on?

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

I have read all 3 volumes of vindication, and understand it’s reasoning for that era. Of course, I won’t apply it to modern ideology, but the core value still holds. Here, you should ask any modern day bible student why they haven’t revised their understanding. My question has not been answered. Your claim, is that the WTS is devoid of the Holy Spirit, because some self-proclaimed theorist has told you.

I thought you people were strong advocates of “free will”, but that’s another story. So far, I’ve, read what other people have told you, like Rutherford was a drunk, cheat, liar, child molester, etc. He built a mansion Beth Sarim on the WTS donated money, even though it was just a home, without having a clue, that he built his retirement home on the suggestion of his doctor to aid him with his health issues after the release of his imprisonment under the Catholic authority, by personal donations of his friends separate from any WTS contributions that you people have a strong “opinion” on. However, that doesn’t make your opinions “FACT” That makes it a distortion of the truth.

I also understand, the stance of your “opinion” on the flip-flops. This again is just an opinion, it doesn’t make it fact. The WTS has never said, it wouldn’t be revising its understanding as new light surfaced. That’s God’s purpose to guide. To Christendom, this “New Light” is the distortions you people conveniently continue to use.

But, to the WTS, it’s a revelation from God’s, Holy Spirit. Now, I come back to my original question. Prove to me, that’s not the case. You people are so such of yourselves, by giving the public a definite answer in your “opinion”, then prove it. Show me how you can be, this conclusive to know how God is not with the WTS aside from your personal opinions and distorted facts. So far, all I read is conjecture, now that’s presumptuous.

Now, I haven’t insulted anyone, so let’s keep the personal attacks in check, and not turn it to rhetoric.

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

How do Jehovah's Witnesses know that the book Vindication includes every revelation of truth? JWleaks
How do Jehovah's Witnesses know that the Watchtower magazine is telling the truth about the book Vindication? JWleaks

Here’s my question for JWLEAKS. For years you have definitive knowledge that everything the WTS has ever written is false.

Question 1: Why do you find the need to manipulate and alter the WTS publication, take their information out of context, to present your claim? I would imagine, and intelligent person doesn’t need trickery.

Question 2: In all your infinite wisdom. You refute the claim the WTS doesn’t receive God’s Holy Spirit (Truth). Can you please Provide your “PROOF”, that is the case? Since you claim, how Jehovah’s Witnesses know, well, prove to all of us, that isn’t the case. When did God, inspire you through his Holy Spirit (Truth)?

Since God, not you, holds the Holy Spirit (Truth), I’m just trying to understand your logic. I figured out JokeWithFacts Motive, what's yours.