Posts by yaddayadda

38

JW's - Satanic Cult or just wrong-headed religion?

by AK - Jeff in

the evils of the religion are well documented here and elsewhere - but does that prove to you that they are indeed 'satanic', under the direction of satan?

or are they just screwed up?

jeff .

yaddayadda

The question is redundant as it assumes JW's can be categorised in such a 'black and white' manner.

To suggest that the organisation of JW's might be a 'satanic cult' is just as invalid as the JW's assertion that there is only 'one true religion' and all other religions are controlled by Satan.

It's about as pointless as asking: are all Catholics evil, or just misled?

There are only good and bad persons everywhere, and all manner of shades in-between. Same goes for Christians of all denominations. There are only individuals who may be under the direct control of Satan, not entire organisations, whether its JW's or any other group.

32

They make mistakes just like 1st century christians did.

by GBSJG in

when i'm discussing problems i have with the wts with my family they often say well they make mistakes just like the early christians did, they are not perfect.. i try to argue that if you think that way you can go to any christian church and say the same.

but usually they say that compared to other religions the wts makes less mistakes so you should go there.. i know that such reasoning doesn't make sense to me but what is a good response to this?.

yaddayadda

What better way to convince them than by using the Bible!:

Point them to Zephaniah 3:8 & 9 and get them to read it carefully, then ask them WHEN does Jehovah give the 'pure language' (of doctrinal truth) to his people? Watch their jaws drop when they see for themselves that it is DURING the great tribulation, not before! This proves that Jehovah has not given to any one group of Christians any 'pure' teachings and therefore logically no single religion can claim to be the only 'true' religion.

Then ask them why the Society from 1995 has taught that the separation of the sheep and the goats is a FUTURE event, yet, in a clear contradiction to that, it still teaches that the separation of the wheat from the weeds has been ongoing from 1914-19?? To prove the error of the Watchtower Society in this regard, ask them when the 'harvest' is by getting them to read Matthew 13: 39 for themselves. There, Jesus clearly says that the harvest is 'a conclusion of a system of things'. The 'conclusion' of this system of things is obviously still FUTURE. This logically means that Jesus has YET to gather together the various wheat-like Christians that are still scattered, intermingled, amongst all the weeds.

These two passages of scripture prove that any claim of an ingathering of Christians into one organisation exclusively used by God to teach a 'pure' body of doctrinal 'truth' can only be a FUTURE event. Until it happens, true and false Christians remain scattered together as wheat and weeds in EVERY Christian denomination until the harvest.

16

When did WT start teaching all wicked would be destroyed at Armageddon?

by cabasilas in

russell did not teach that all the wicked would be destroyed at armageddon.

neither did rutherford, initially.

that is why he preached that millions then living would never die.

yaddayadda

Great research TD, thank you very much.

23

WHAT QUESTIONS WOULD YOU LIKE TO ASK A GB MEMBER?

by badboy in

jw
friends

any takers?.

yaddayadda

Which of your own teachings do you have doubts about and why?!!

93

Christianity did NOT borrow from pagan "Dying-Rising" God motifs

by yaddayadda in

it is a fallacy that the early christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising god-man on the loom of mystery religions.

the idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the christian concept of the death and resurrection of christ was popularized by james frazer in the golden bough, first published in 1906. scholar edwin yamauchi (1974; easter: myth, hallucination, or history?

) has observed that, although frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since frazers ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960s.

yaddayadda

It is a fallacy that the early Christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising God-man on the loom of mystery religions.

The idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the Christian concept of the death and resurrection of Christ was popularized by James Frazer in ‘The Golden Bough’, first published in 1906. Scholar Edwin Yamauchi (1974; “Easter: Myth, Hallucination, or History?”) has observed that, although Frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since Frazer’s ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960’s.

To take just one example, on the Osiris myth, Bruce Metzger (1968; “Historical and Literary Studies: Pagan, Jewish and Christian") observes, “Whether this can rightly be called a resurrection is questionable, especially since, according to Plutarch, it was the pious desire of devotees to be buried in the same ground where, according to local tradition, the body of Osiris was still lying.”

Yamauchi agrees: “It is a cardinal misconception to equate the Egyptian view of the afterlife with the “resurrection” of Hebrew-Christian traditions. In order to achieve immortality the Egyptian had to fulfill three conditions: (1) His body had to be preserved, hence mummification. (2) Nourishment had to be provided either by the actual offering of daily bread and beer, or by the magical depiction of food on the walls of the tomb. (3) Magical spells had to be interred with the dead – Pyramid Texts in the Old Kingdom, Coffin Texts in the Middle Kingdom, and the Book of the Dead in the New Kingdom. Moreover, the Egyptian did not rise from the dead; separate entities of his personality such as his Ba and his Ka continued to hover about his body.”

A little research will likewise prove that any alleged parallels between Jesus resurrection and Tammuz (Adonis), and Cybele and Attis, are tenuous and weak.

In fact, that the mystery religions prior to Christianity even had the tale of a dying and rising god-man is it itself a myth. Ronald Nash (2003; ‘The Gospel and the Greeks’) sums up the evidence about all these gods of the mystery religions and their alleged resurrections”

“ Which mystery gods actually experienced a resurrection from the dead? Certainly no early texts refer to any resurrection of Attis. Attempts to link the worship of Adonis to a resurrection are equally weak. Nor is the case for a resurrection of Osiris any stronger. After Isis gathered together the pieces of Osiris’s dismembered body, he became “Lord of the Underworld.” As Metzger comments, “Whether this can be rightly called a resurrection is questionable, especially since according to Plutarch, it was the pious desire of devotees to be buried in the same ground where, according to local tradition, the body of Osiris was still lying.” One can speak, then, of a “resurrection” in the stories of Osiris, Attis, and Adnonis only in the most extended of senses. And of course no claim can be made that Mithras was a dying and rising god. French scholar Andrew Boulanger concludes: “The conception that the god dies and is resurrection in order to lead his faithful to eternal life is represented in no Hellenistic mystery religion.”
<br><br>Nash’s study on the mystery religions shows the contrast between them and Christianity. He notes six points of contrast between the death and resurrection of the savior-gods of the mysteries and the resurrection of Christ:

1 “None of the so-called savior-gods died for someone else. The notion of the Son of God dying in place of His creatures is unique to Christianity.”
2 “Only Jesus died for sin. As Wagner observed, to none of the pagan gods ‘has the intention of helping men been attributed. The sort of death that they died is quite different (hunting accident, self-emasculation, etc.)’ “
3 “Jesus died once and for all (Heb 7:27; 9:25-28). In contrast, the mystery gods were vegetation deities who repeated death and resuscitation depict the annual cycle of nature.”
4 “Jesus’ death was an actual event in history. The death of the god described in the pagan cults is a mythical drama with no historical ties; its continued rehearsal celebrates the recurring death and rebirth of nature. The incontestable fact that the early church believed that its proclamation of Jesus’ death and resurrection was grounded upon what actually happened in history makes absurd any attempt to derive this belief from the mythical, nonhistorical stories of the pagan cults.”
5 “Unlike the mystery gods, Jesus died voluntarily. Nothing like the voluntary death of Jesus can be found in the mystery cults.”
6 And finally, Jesus’ death was not a defeat but a triumph. Christianity stands entirely apart from the pagan mysteries in that its report of Jesus’ death is a message of triumph. Even as Jesus was experiencing the pain and humiliation of the cross, He was the victor. The New Testament’s mood of exultation contrasts sharply with that of the mystery religions, whose followers wept and mourned for the terrible fate that overtook their gods.”

Walter Kunneth (1965; "The Theology of the Resurrection") sums it up: “It is superficial and unfounded to say that the study of the history of religion has shown the dependence of the resurrection of Jesus on mythology. On the contrary, it is precisely the comparison with the history that gives rise to the strongest objections to any kind of mythifying of the resurrection of Jesus.”

55

Will Lack of Leadership Sink the JW Ship?

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

i see serious problems with the leadership of the witnesses on two important levels: locally, in smaller bodies of elders with marginally qualified men carrying heavier workloads, and internationally in a lackluster and unimaginative governing body.

there are no nathan knorrs, or fred or ray franz's in this pathetic group!

first, the local elders: .

yaddayadda

Nup. I think one of the problems with the org is there are TOO MANY leaders! There are too many heirarchies of people with unscriptural titles and roles, MS's, circuit overseers, DO's, Branch overseers, pioneers, committees, etc, etc. This is why nothing changes for the better in the org....it has become a huge, ponderous beaucratic machine the likes of which the USSR would have been proud of. It's like a giant oil-tanker that takes 5 miles to turn around or pick up any inertia.

The Society needs to get rid of all these cumbersome 'middle manager' roles and simplify things. It needs to abandon structuring itself like a global corporation (which it utterly is) with all these layers of 'leaderships' and get back to the basic, humble arrangement found in the bible.

Basically it needs to go back to the old, simple pre-Rutherford structure, without all these rings of centralised control.

10

Why is the Faithful and Discreet Slave thanked in every prayer?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

jw
friends

every prayer at any meal,congregation meeting,and assemblyhas the fds being thanked for the spiritual food that they provide.jesus gave us an example on who to pray to and what to say.the society or any human were not included and was not ever mentioned by jesus.the society has always included themselves in prayers.

.

do you think that by including themselves in every prayer,they intentionally try to inculcate that into each brain,so that their powers are never questioned?.

yaddayadda

It's probably fair to say the FDS/org gets more mention in prayers than Jesus.

28

What other ancient Greek Manuscripts contained the divine name?

by yaddayadda in

the society in appendix 1a of their 'kingdom interlinear translation of the christian greek scriptures' refers to nine other greek manuscripts as containing the divine name, and they quote from jerome as referring to certain 'greek volumes' containing the tetragrammaton.

can anyone shed any light on what these greek manuscripts and volumes are and their dates of writing?

here is what the society says in full: .

yaddayadda

I agree Jringe. But I would say they should not have inserted 'Jehovah' at all in the NT in those places where they are not quoting directly from the OT.

If they have faith that Jehovah has preserved his word accurately they must assume that Jehovah never intended his name to go where there is no evidence whatsoever that it was ever there in the first place.

28

What other ancient Greek Manuscripts contained the divine name?

by yaddayadda in

the society in appendix 1a of their 'kingdom interlinear translation of the christian greek scriptures' refers to nine other greek manuscripts as containing the divine name, and they quote from jerome as referring to certain 'greek volumes' containing the tetragrammaton.

can anyone shed any light on what these greek manuscripts and volumes are and their dates of writing?

here is what the society says in full: .

yaddayadda

ps - Thank you very much Moggy Lover for those references.

28

What other ancient Greek Manuscripts contained the divine name?

by yaddayadda in

the society in appendix 1a of their 'kingdom interlinear translation of the christian greek scriptures' refers to nine other greek manuscripts as containing the divine name, and they quote from jerome as referring to certain 'greek volumes' containing the tetragrammaton.

can anyone shed any light on what these greek manuscripts and volumes are and their dates of writing?

here is what the society says in full: .

yaddayadda

My opinion is that the Society is probably justified in inserting 'Jehovah' in the New Testament wherever the bible writer is directly quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures, despite the lack of any extant copies of NT manuscripts that contain the divine name. But they have gone too far in adding 'Jehovah' in other places in the NT.