Hi Konosen,
Thanks for the backdrop. I'd say, writing six letters without an answer and on the spot disfellowshipping for apostacy, quick and the dead I'd say. Did they try to reason with you?
What did you take issue with?
Anyway, about Matth 24:45-47. Against the background of JW history I would say, don't go there. It does not solve anything. The question is rhetorical and by trying to supply an answer, however unlikely and farfetched, paired to confusing the 2nd invisible presence with the return where all kinds of shit happens, we get into a big mess over which thinking christians have busted each others head.
The passage is used to support and instil organisational thinking counter to everything the gospels wants us to believe about Jesus' teachings.
From a positive point of view, I would expect JC himself to answer that question if he comes back instead of mere humans with all kinds of spiritual deviating ideas.
Cheers
Borgia
Borgia
JoinedPosts by Borgia
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16
Faithful slave?
by Kosonen inwe have allways heard someones calling them selves "discreet and faithfull slave"?
they say that jesus came in 1918 and approved them as discreet and faithful.
many of those were not yet born then, so could jesus have approved them before their birth?
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Borgia
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Incorporated Churches
by golf2 inhas anyone done research on incorporated churches?
if jesus were alive today, would he be incorporated?
golf
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Borgia
Golf2,
I was just pulling a leg here, but pointing to incorporation of a religious org in case the WBTS, is a valid and good point.
In talks with my fil and my brother, I have argued against being incorporated because legal matters have a heavy bearing on process and procedure and the driver is not always clear.
On top, it is not independence that is at stake, but of whom is protection from enemies solicited? Case in point: WBTS soliciting protection of UN/ OCSE and other national and supranational entities. They tend to look for Egypt for protection instead of the source of their alleged strength: God.
Incorporation opens a floodgate of distractions that does interfere with christian conduct.
Cheers
Borgia -
16
Faithful slave?
by Kosonen inwe have allways heard someones calling them selves "discreet and faithfull slave"?
they say that jesus came in 1918 and approved them as discreet and faithful.
many of those were not yet born then, so could jesus have approved them before their birth?
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Borgia
To be fair, Konosen, you do not have a profile description. Are you a JW, are you studying to become a jw, have you been a jw, raised as such, etc/?
From what I deduct from your initial question here, as I stated already, you seem to be out of tune with the current understanding of the FDS. So I'm interest in your background, where you're coming from.
Cheers
Borgia -
29
Hmmmn..Intresting Convo with my DAD last NIGHT
by dirtyknections inso me and my father who is an elder get into yet another rather tense discussions about the bible .
and my new found "beliefs".
one of the things we discussed was my belief that the way we conduct studies... .
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Borgia
Hi Dirtyknection,
Welcome to the board. Interesting topic.
Here's something I found about adult learning compared to adult learning within the WTS confines (blue).
Part of being an effective instructor involves understanding how adults learn best. Compared to children and teens, adults have special needs and requirements as learners. Despite the apparent truth, adult learning is a relatively new area of study. The field of adult learning was pioneered by Malcom Knowles. He identified the following characteristics of adult learners:* Adults are autonomous and self-directed. They need to be free to direct themselves. Their teachers must actively involve adult participants in the learning process and serve as facilitators for them. Specifically, they must get participants' perspectives about what topics to cover and let them work on projects that reflect their interests. They should allow the participants to assume responsibility for presentations and group leadership. They have to be sure to act as facilitators, guiding participants to their own knowledge rather than supplying them with facts. Finally, they must show participants how the class will help them reach their goals (e.g., via a personal goals sheet).
Not within the WTS you're not. They hate independent thinking and you need to learn to depend on the WTS to tell you what is goodness.And by the way: We are the FDS. We are the leadership. So don't you dare dreaming about the tail wagging the dog!
* Adults have accumulated a foundation of life experiences and knowledge that may include work-related activities, family responsibilities, and previous education. They need to connect learning to this knowledge/experience base. To help them do so, they should draw out participants' experience and knowledge which is relevant to the topic. They must relate theories and concepts to the participants and recognize the value of experience in learning.
Not within the WTS it's not. Only apostates claim to have more wisdom than the FDS. Just do as we tell you to and you will be part of the happiest people around!
* Adults are goal-oriented. Upon enrolling in a course, they usually know what goal they want to attain. They, therefore, appreciate an educational program that is organized and has clearly defined elements. Instructors must show participants how this class will help them attain their goals. This classification of goals and course objectives must be done early in the course.
O yes, by all means. But not your goals. Ofcourse you do not obey God to gain everlasting life or serve God for a specific time frame. You may cherish the idea but you will conform to the goals we will set for you. So, we'll tell you we'll show you how to do the presentations on the door. How to make reports, how to file your hourreport, how to participate on meetings and how to use FDS approved literature only.
* Adults are relevancy-oriented. They must see a reason for learning something. Learning has to be applicable to their work or other responsibilities to be of value to them. Therefore, instructors must identify objectives for adult participants before the course begins. This means, also, that theories and concepts must be related to a setting familiar to participants. This need can be fulfilled by letting participants choose projects that reflect their own interests.
The relevancy is: you just enroll with us in order to be saved. Of course you may choose your study project. We encourage you to do so and use the FDS approved literature only.
* Adults are practical, focusing on the aspects of a lesson most useful to them in their work. They may not be interested in knowledge for its own sake. Instructors must tell participants explicitly how the lesson will be useful to them on the job.
We encourage you to be practical. How to spent all your time in the preaching service. The last march will win in intensity! We'll also tell you how you can make contributions and what to do with your estate.
* As do all learners, adults need to be shown respect. Instructors must acknowledge the wealth of experiences that adult participants bring to the classroom. These adults should be treated as equals in experience and knowledge and allowed to voice their opinions freely in class.
Not within the WTS it's not. You show us you respect us. We are the FDS; appointed by JC himself over all his belongings and you are part of that belonging. We own you! You may have insights, talent, whatever. But we are the FDS. Only apostates claim that they are wiser than we
I jut could not resist
Cheers
Borgia -
29
Hmmmn..Intresting Convo with my DAD last NIGHT
by dirtyknections inso me and my father who is an elder get into yet another rather tense discussions about the bible .
and my new found "beliefs".
one of the things we discussed was my belief that the way we conduct studies... .
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Borgia
Jardon,
Whether or not the WTS is right or wrong....your analogy is flawed for at least 2 reasons:
1)your claim a research of considerable time.
2)and the outcome will save millions of lives.
@1)The WTS is now 130 years into the preachingwork and they have converted 0,1% of the worlds population which grows at a faster pace then they do. The current outcome is not the outcome of 50 years of intensive research. Russel has laid the foundation after a few years of discussion. The only thing that changes is the way the jW are kept in line and kept together.
@2)About that saving lives: we 're still waiting for that are we not? Maybe you will say: the same lame argument was used in Noah's days. And yes, maybe that is what really happened. But what also happened is that Noah did not do 50 years researching, preached 120 years and the outcome was he saved only 7 more than only himself. Why? because the only thing he had to say for himself was: God has spoken to me to built an ark so you can be rescued from the flood that's coming to destroy this wicked earth. Now that is to the heart and mind appealing. The JW have been crying wolf for God knows how long and none of their prophesies, sorry, applications have been justified. People are in need of being rescued from fantasies such as those through education, not propaganda.
Cheers
Borgia -
31
My Story - Part 2
by Jeremy C inlike many jw children, i was deeply influenced and motivated by watchtower society artwork depicting the new system of things.
i was profoundly influenced by artwork (particularly in the book: you can live forever in paradise on earth) that portrayed children petting tigers, playing with lion cubs, running through grassy fields with kites, and enjoying care-free lives.
what i now realized about myself is that for a jw to desire such things; and to go through the motions - performing organizationally-programmed activity in order to receive this reward; does not necessarily require a love for god or christ that is any deeper than other religionists.
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Borgia
Hi Jeremy C,
I did not have had the opportunity to welcome you here, so, I'll seize it now:
Welcome here and you've done a great contribution already. Looking forward to hearing more from you.
Cheers
Borgia -
16
Faithful slave?
by Kosonen inwe have allways heard someones calling them selves "discreet and faithfull slave"?
they say that jesus came in 1918 and approved them as discreet and faithful.
many of those were not yet born then, so could jesus have approved them before their birth?
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Borgia
Well, you raise some key issues here, Konosen.
Welcome to the board. Could you briefly tell us something about the backdrop of the points you raised because you already seem to be out of tune with the understanding the FDS has about the subject.
Cheers
Borgia -
13
Incorporated Churches
by golf2 inhas anyone done research on incorporated churches?
if jesus were alive today, would he be incorporated?
golf
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Borgia
If Jesus were alive today, would he be incorporated?
hmmmm, interesting question......
Do you believe Jesus is alive today? if so, your question is readily answered since he's up there, no? If you do not believe him to be alive today, you've already have your answer.....
Cheers
Borgia -
42
some quirks of the DC talks...
by metaspy inhere is a run down of some special things i noticed at the district convention.. i probably took better notes now than when i used to go as a jw.. however, my notes now are mostly "stupid" things that they say on stage.
saturday.
symposium: directed by god's spirit in our ministry - speaking the word of god with boldness.
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Borgia
Bible Writers Borne Along by Holy Spirit Speaker noted that the Bible is never wrong, anything wrong done by bOrg was because of imperfect men. He said: You never hear some one say "I followed the bible's advice and that was a disaster". Notice he did not say that about the society's writings. He followed it up with "The Bible is the only book to survive attempts to destroy it." I don't know if I believe that. I think there have been a couple books in history that have survived attacks.
And rightly so. Maybe a manuscript may have been burnt here and there of the bible to prevent people from reading it, but, the funny thing is....In the kingdom of Valencia in 1478 a bible has been written by a catholic monk called Bonafaci Ferrer in the Valencian language. So, although from a protestant point of view, the bible may have been an opposed book, the RCC has done its share in ascertaining its survival (and even making it available to the public)
Opposed to that are other books, like the ones contained in the Nag Hammadi library. The Christian churches have gone to great lengths to destroy books. (The bible even contains examples of it). But so have the Nazi's and others.
Here's in interesting article about prosecuted books and its survival.
Cheers
Borgia. -
42
some quirks of the DC talks...
by metaspy inhere is a run down of some special things i noticed at the district convention.. i probably took better notes now than when i used to go as a jw.. however, my notes now are mostly "stupid" things that they say on stage.
saturday.
symposium: directed by god's spirit in our ministry - speaking the word of god with boldness.
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Borgia
Symposium: Empowered by Holy Spirit The speaker made an interesting finger pointing statement: "If you could kick the backside of the person responsible for each of your problems. You wouldn't be able to sit for a month." Nothing like saying, "you bring it on yourself brothers".
I like that one. Turn it around and you get: If you could praise the person responsible for each of your successes, you would be celebrating for a month.
So much for EMPOWERMENT by holy spirit.
Cheers
Borgia