Posts by Zana

5

My 4 year old son starts asking about death

by Zana in

my wife is a moderate jw, me i am agnostic.

she can "offer" eternal life on earth, which is difficult to top.

first i told him, that there is actually no proof for what his mother tells him.

Zana

Giordano, I know I know, very interesting and important topic. But very off-topic here.

Also I don't plan on forbidding my wife to tell him anything about their religion. I do however object to some topics like talk about armageddon and how non-jws will all be killed then.

Simon, I don't want to, but he himself started the conversation repeatedly. I rather talk about it then instead of changing the topic or just divert his attention to something else. Of course I don't plan on giving him an hour-long lecture either.

I would just like to get some ideas how other atheist or agnostic parents talk to their kids about death.

5

My 4 year old son starts asking about death

by Zana in

my wife is a moderate jw, me i am agnostic.

she can "offer" eternal life on earth, which is difficult to top.

first i told him, that there is actually no proof for what his mother tells him.

Zana

My wife is a moderate JW, me I am agnostic. She can "offer" eternal life on earth, which is difficult to top. First I told him, that there is actually no proof for what his mother tells him. And that many different people (me, his grandma, his muslim friends) believe many different things about what happens after we die. But nobody can prove it. I think he gets that. But if it is a question of belief, he might think of choosing to believe the most attractive option. My son wishes he will never die. I can tell him things like there won't be enough space on the planet, if people keep having babies. Or that although we die, we keep on living in the memories of the people whe cared about us. But that's just dry bread compared to all the sugar and cream his mother can offer him.

Any suggestions what else I could tell him?

77

In The Name of Love, Need Your Opinion

by thankyou in

i'm non-jw.. been following this forum.

most of you folks have been through hell, but are still loving souls.

i'm reeeally impressed and glad to be here.. my question is at the end of this.

Zana

My 2 cents:

Figure out how deep she is in. When und why did she join this religion? Does she have worldly friends? What about her family?

If you're lucky she might be a "liberal" JW. My wife is one. Her best friend is a muslim. She was willing to marry me, an unbelieving mate, although she knows that people look down on her for that. She puts the needs of her family above the demands of her congregation, for example not going to meetings when one of our children is sick. She knows that she is considered a spiritually weak person but it doesn't bother her much.

77

In The Name of Love, Need Your Opinion

by thankyou in

i'm non-jw.. been following this forum.

most of you folks have been through hell, but are still loving souls.

i'm reeeally impressed and glad to be here.. my question is at the end of this.

Zana

deleted double post

42

Ironic quote in the 5/14wt lesson "Are you moving ahead with Jehovahs Organization"

by BU2B in

jw
friends

the whole article makes me ill with its worse than average mind control.. i was going to only include one quote but there are so many doozies that i will post what i feel to be the worst.. from paragraph 6.

"gods organization survives and flourishes on earth because the people who are part of it have his approval.".

the great tribulation has been "so close" for over 120 years of wt history.

Zana

I (UBM) went to the meeting with my wife and we somewhat discussed the article afterwards. She actually started it, realizing during the meeting, how I must cringing in my seat with all this talk about the org and why we should follow it. I am trying to make her see that there is a difference between believing in God (and maybe looking for some kind of personal relationship with him) and believing and following everything the WTBS says. So this means progress, as she almost apologized to me for being a JW, explaining that she stuck with them basically because all other christian religions she has had contact with, are a lot worse in her opinion.

8

How to prove the Watchtower wrong with their own recent literature (May 15th, 2014)

by Zana in

this is very good, at least it will be in a few years.

sorry if it's been posted here before already.. it's in the watchtower magazine may 15th, 2014, last page: from our archives: they talk about a public speech held in sao paolo in 1923 where they also distributed the brochure "millions who now live will never die" (pictured in the magazine!).

a quick calculation: 1923 -> 2014, how many people in the world now are 90 years old or more?

Zana

This is very good, at least it will be in a few years. Sorry if it's been posted here before already.

It's in the Watchtower magazine May 15th, 2014, last page: From our archives: They talk about a public speech held in Sao Paolo in 1923 where they also distributed the brochure "Millions who now live will never die" (pictured in the magazine!). A quick calculation: 1923 -> 2014, how many people in the world now are 90 years old or more? Not sure, probably still millions, but not many. So in a few years there is definite proof about the fact, that at least once they printed something wrong. And you don't need to look for it in the internet, apostate literature or decades old watchtower magazines. You can show them openly with their own latest literature. And then ask the question: "How can you be sure, that everything they print today is true? You can't!"

I definitely planted a seed there (in my wife's head).

PS: I found this in the Spanish version of the watchtower (La Atalaya). The not simplified version! Not sure if it's in the English version.

17

Birthday celebration/participation

by Zana in

my wife is considering to let our kids participate, maybe even celebrate their own birthdays.

she says what can be so bad about just giving a little kid (who doesn't yet understand the bible) a day full of joy and happiness?

she herself actually delayed her own baptism as a teenager in order to celebrate one more birthday.

Zana

My wife (liberal JW) and I (UBM) have been discussing birthdays lately (again...), after our 3 years old son got a few birthday invitations from his friends. My wife is considering to let our kids participate, maybe even celebrate their own birthdays. She says what can be so bad about just giving a little kid (who doesn't yet understand the bible) a day full of joy and happiness? She herself actually delayed her own baptism as a teenager in order to celebrate one more birthday.

Questions for you:

- How bad are birthdays really for JWs? Reason for DF? Or how bad compared to other sins for example fornication, smoking, marrying an UBM? Is there a difference between participating in someone elses birthday and celebrating yout own and why? What about a JW mother who lets her kids participate in their friends birthday parties? How bad will she be counseled if word gets out?

- How can I continue to reason with her, that the watchtower interpretion of the bible concernings birthdays is actually very far-fetched. What bible-quotes will she throw at me (or other JWs at her) and how can I try to disarm their arguments?

67

Raising kids - JW mother, agnostic father

by Zana in

my wife and i have two wonderful children aged 1 and 3. i was raised as a lutheran but stopped believing in my late teen years.

my wife is what i would call a liberal jw (yes, i believe such people exist .

sooner or later our children will have questions about religion and the differences mom and dad show towards it.

Zana

Fraz,

You will always be the enemy in all of this - any compromises you make will not change this - she will just see this as a sign of weakness. Also much better to start tough and relax at the edges later than to start by making compromises and then try to tighten up once you realise you have lost control.

I can see the logic here, but the thing is, right now I am not the enemy, not for her and not for her congregation. They (the cong) probably still hope I will become a JW one day. And for example they are happy, I take care of the kids every once in a while, so my wife can go door-to-door. And for my wife I am not the enemy because we understand we both want what is best for our kids. And she is kind of open to the idea that the WTBS truth is not the one and only way to educate children. So she actually listens (and complies) when for example I talk about avoiding fear-inducing bible stories. And she doesn't side with the WTBS. Which I am afraid she would do more often than not, if I "start tough" now.

67

Raising kids - JW mother, agnostic father

by Zana in

my wife and i have two wonderful children aged 1 and 3. i was raised as a lutheran but stopped believing in my late teen years.

my wife is what i would call a liberal jw (yes, i believe such people exist .

sooner or later our children will have questions about religion and the differences mom and dad show towards it.

Zana

villagegirl,

There is no middle road.

I believe there is. At least as long as my wife stays liberal and moderate. And if she suddenly turnes hardcore I can still get out bigger guns. But if I flat out reject everything JW-related now, that would put a strain on our marriage and possibly just result in the consequences I slowly try to stear her away from in the first place.

Actually yesterday we had a talk about the seriousness of baptism, the motives behind it, and at what age this might be appropriate, if our kids really want it. She will be fine with a 18-years-old rule. There it is: Middle road. More time for me to show them the world and educate them to become critical thinkers.

67

Raising kids - JW mother, agnostic father

by Zana in

my wife and i have two wonderful children aged 1 and 3. i was raised as a lutheran but stopped believing in my late teen years.

my wife is what i would call a liberal jw (yes, i believe such people exist .

sooner or later our children will have questions about religion and the differences mom and dad show towards it.

Zana

pbrow, yes, I am the father and yes, I plan on doing most of the things you suggested for my kids. I just want to be prepared for the weapons arsenal the JWs might aim at them sooner or later. You know books, videos, possibly talks behind my back or other things people mentioned here. I am not expecting much trouble from my wife's congregation at the moment. The elders are ok and don't seem very manipulative or overambitious about shepherding their flock. There is one "elderette" who often tries to get my wife more involved in JW activities, but she actually just gets on her nerves, too.

But you never know. Somebody here (roberto?) made the al qaeda sleeper cell comparison. And besides we will possibly move to another city soon. A different congregation could mean more trouble. And then we will have to build new non-JW connections, too.