Posts by Zana

656

Covid-19 (Coronavirus) - Status Update Thread

by Simon in

jw
friends

this topic is to focus on status updates & advice (no opinion or politics please).. status.

latest status is that it's serious, probably isn't going to be contained and most large companies are making contingency plans, cancelling large events etc... which i don't think would happen if it was just people being alarmist.

the incubation period means it may have already spread further and infected many more people than are currently known, so expect jumps in the numbers over the coming days and weeks.. tracking.

Zana

Interesting read, especially the latter part about what they call "the dance", which is what for example South Korea, Singapure and Japan are doing:

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

Summary of the article:

Strong coronavirus measures today should only last a few weeks, there shouldn’t be a big peak of infections afterwards, and it can all be done for a reasonable cost to society, saving millions of lives along the way. If we don’t take these measures, tens of millions will be infected, many will die, along with anybody else that requires intensive care, because the healthcare system will have collapsed.

13

Non JW and JW friendships

by ricsa in

jw
friends

himy story is as follows.

i've been friends with a guy for round 1,5 years.

he told me once he had another guy friend who was gay.

Zana

@ricsa:

How devout is he, what do you think? Does he go te meetings regularly? Does he do a lot of field service?

My wife is a JW, not too devout though. She has a lot of non-JW friends. She is pretty open about her beliefs with them, but if the friend is not interested in talking about it, than fine. They are her friends because they like each other or share common interests or go to school/work together. Not because she wants to convert them. Is there depth to these friendships? I think so, some of them at least. But yes, I know the feeling that on certain topics her reasonings (which actually aren't hers, she just outsourced them to the GB) just blow my mind.

58

Non JW wife/JW husband Christmas tree debate

by spacegirl443 in

jw
friends

first post here and looking for advice and help.

sorry in advance for it being so long :(.

i'm a happily married woman (no kids) who is a non-jw, presbyterian to be precise.

Zana

Hi spacegirl,

I am not a JW but my wife is, rather liberal though, probably considered spiritually weak by many in her cong. We have two small children. For me marriage is about loving each other and accepting who we are. This involves compromises in our life together because there are always differences, not only the religious ones. We have different hobbies, different priorities on vacations etc. But we have made the decision to build a life together for us and our children, so we have to make it work. And it does work! Mainly because we always come back to "We love each other" and "family well-being is our top priority". And starting from there we find compromises. But first we need to know how important certain things are in each others lives.

Examples: I like birthdays very much and I want them for my children to celebrate freely. So we do celebrate them, just not with a big party or inviting lots of people. I like Christmas, too. But for me as an agnostic it is mainly a good occasion for quality family time. So there is good food, gifts, a lot of talking and playing together but no tree in our house. It's not that high on my priority list but it's high on hers to not have one. So I give her that, and on the other hand she gives me other things. We usually visit my parents or my sister during Christmas für a few days so we do get to see a tree after all.

So is your husband willing to compromise, too? Does he recognize how important the tree is for you and act accordingly? Try to figure out what exactly he doesn't like about it. Is he afraid that others JWs find out? I wouldn't force the tree, but I admit compromise is difficult here. Maybe put up a tree only every two years? Or always go on vacation during christmas and put up a tree in your vacation house/cabin so it doesn't have to stand in his house?

10

Not Inspired?

by kairos in

jw
friends

the head, jesus christ, supplies the body members with what is needed for good cooperation, coordination, and spiritual nourishment.

in such respects, the governing body is organized to take the lead as jehovah directs them by holy spirit.. 2008 wt 5/15 pg 29. the party's over....

Zana

I think many here read to much into this "neither inspired nor infallible". In the very next paragraph of that 2017 february study article it says:

The holy spirit has helped the Governing Body to grasp Scriptural truths not previously understood.

My guess is, most JWs will just pause for a second when reading the admission of not being inspired, then continue with the next sentences and: "Oh, the holy spirit still helps the GB, good. Everything is fine! They never said they were inspired, just spirit-directed. How humble of them to admit they are not infallible. But obviously they still have Jehovah's blessing (three paragraphs of "evidence"). All hail the GB!"

50

Why Finding the One True Religion is Impossible

by Simon in

jws like to think they have found the one true religion.

but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?

not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?

Zana

Well, if every JW were pioneering, maybe it wouldn't be impossible to give almost everybody at least the opportunity to get to know the JW "truth". Isn't Simon's post actually playing into their hands? About the importance of field service and going to serve where the need is greater?

22

The Bible or God? - A Message to Formerbrother

by David_Jay in

“i still can not find any other option that comes as close to all the bible as jws do.”-- from the profile of formerbrother.. this is lengthy, but it should help you, formerbrother.

the problem is not in your search for this "option" but that you are searching according the criteria set out by the jehovah’s witnesses (and likely following the reasoning set out by their claims).. before proceeding, understand clearly (as there will always be someone reading this that will skip this point that i make) that i am not writing to advance any particular religious view.

though raised and baptized as a jehovah’s witness in my late teen years, i am jewish.

Zana

David_Jay

1. You proved my point.

Happy to oblige.

And thanks for this info (which I didn't really know about):

If God inspired the Church to canonize the Bible, obviously the Church was doing God's will (but JWs claim it was under Satan by this time). Unlike the Governing Body, the Catholic Church claims it canonized the Scriptures by inspiration of God,

One thing though:

If the Catholic Church had authority and inspiration then, it would not mean they must have it today, too. A lot of time has passed since the canonization, maybe they fell out of favor with God.

Now back to your original idea of this thread:

For Jehovah’s Witnesses that ultimate source of revelation is the Bible. All that one should do to serve God, the basis for one’s belief, the source of all truth is, for Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Bible. I assume this is what you still believe, am I correct?

Formerbrother never answered your question. Maybe you are wrong, and he doesn't believe that. I am not a JW, but I think most of the JW I know wouldn't consider the Bible the ultimate source of revelation. Just a source. God comes first. So there is no paradox.

22

The Bible or God? - A Message to Formerbrother

by David_Jay in

“i still can not find any other option that comes as close to all the bible as jws do.”-- from the profile of formerbrother.. this is lengthy, but it should help you, formerbrother.

the problem is not in your search for this "option" but that you are searching according the criteria set out by the jehovah’s witnesses (and likely following the reasoning set out by their claims).. before proceeding, understand clearly (as there will always be someone reading this that will skip this point that i make) that i am not writing to advance any particular religious view.

though raised and baptized as a jehovah’s witness in my late teen years, i am jewish.

Zana

Something from outside the Bible made the Bible "the Bible."

A JW would probably answer: This Something was God, plain and simple. He probably not only inspired the writers, he also inspired those responsible for choosing the chapters that went in and the ones that were kept out. If you believe in the former it's not such a stretch to believe in the latter, too.

And if that is not enough to satisfy you, I would say: "It still is the next best thing" we today can get as a written basis for our beliefs. Better trust this book which was completed within 300 years after Jesus death, than anything newer (for example the mormon book) or anything less reliable (for example catholic traditions subject to change).

And Mary Jones? So what? God must have had his reasons. I could also ask why did God not let Europeans discover America 1000 years earlier? All this time the Native Americans had to live and die without knowing about Jesus. Seems kind of fruitless to ask these kinds of questions.

Look, I think many rank and file JWs are quite pragmatic. Maybe their leadership is not perfect, maybe their doctrine and it's origins are not perfect. Many would claim they don't have to be. They believe in God, they want to know what is his purpose for us, and how they can serve him. And they don't want to do that alone, but together with fellow believers. Using the bible and what it tells us about about early Christianity seems like a good start. Certainly better and more verifiable than what most - if not all - other Christian groups can offer.

22

The Bible or God? - A Message to Formerbrother

by David_Jay in

“i still can not find any other option that comes as close to all the bible as jws do.”-- from the profile of formerbrother.. this is lengthy, but it should help you, formerbrother.

the problem is not in your search for this "option" but that you are searching according the criteria set out by the jehovah’s witnesses (and likely following the reasoning set out by their claims).. before proceeding, understand clearly (as there will always be someone reading this that will skip this point that i make) that i am not writing to advance any particular religious view.

though raised and baptized as a jehovah’s witness in my late teen years, i am jewish.

Zana

Interesting read, thanks! I know a JW who might be at a similar point in life like former brother. Same reasoning, he

believes in God
believes in Jesus
believes in the Bible as God's word
believes he must find/identify God's people so he can serve God together with some likeminded folks

I have been thinking about where I can start to make him question this line of thought. If I were him, I would probably answer to you, David_Jay, somehing like this:

Okay, the New Testament obviously could not be the source or foundation of early Christianity. But they didn't need it then. They had the apostles who talked about Jesus. When they died they still had people tell them what they heard from the apostles about Jesus, maybe passed down one or two generations. But at some point, this wasn't reliable anymore. It needed to be written down. Of course the Bible is only an end product. In itself it cannot be the foundation of Christianity. But I believe it to be the most accurate description about what happened 2000 years ago. So we have to take what we can get, because today we have no God speaking to us directly, no apostles still alive, no prophets, no miracles. The bible is the next best thing, that's why I am willing to base my believes on it.

39

Is changing the "truth" / presenting "new light" really so bad?

by Zana in

jw
friends

playing devil's advocate here.... what's the difference between the gb changing bible interpretations compared to parliaments all over the world changing laws?

although the us constitution (=bible) remains untouched, congress passes i don't know how many new laws every year.

and of course people are expected to follow them.

Zana

Thanks people, for all you answers!

Is this another troll post?

No, it's not. I have two JWs in my life that probably belong in this category:

... OR it is the GB getting it wrong and Jehovah corrects them but then you simply can never ever trust that any doctrine is right.

Except they still trust the GB. So I started this thread in order to get some arguments against their position. These two people accept that the GB are just imperfect men and that they will get it wrong every now and then. But they trust them to try hard enough. And they believe that what the GB presents, is still the next best thing to God's real truth compared to any other religion.

You cannot criticise a current teaching of the WTS. You cannot lobby for change.

When talking about this, one told me, you actually can. His example was a change about the question whether miscarriages or stillborn babies have hope of a resurrection or not. First the GB said, "No, they don't." But after receiving many letters from concerned JWs they changed this to "We don't know."

You can trace most "increasing light" and "clarifications" down to one of the following:
- saving the org money
- making the org money
- minimising legal exposure
- controlling the membership
- covering up prophetic failures

This is very good! I will have to figure out how I can use this in a discussion with JWs without appearing overly aggressive.

39

Is changing the "truth" / presenting "new light" really so bad?

by Zana in

jw
friends

playing devil's advocate here.... what's the difference between the gb changing bible interpretations compared to parliaments all over the world changing laws?

although the us constitution (=bible) remains untouched, congress passes i don't know how many new laws every year.

and of course people are expected to follow them.

Zana

Playing devil's advocate here...

What's the difference between the GB changing bible interpretations compared to parliaments all over the world changing laws? Although the US constitution (=bible) remains untouched, Congress passes I don't know how many new laws every year. And of course people are expected to follow them. You can't tell a jury that this or that wasn't a crime ten years ago, so you can't be judged for it today. Yes, you can!