Well, if every JW were pioneering, maybe it wouldn't be impossible to give almost everybody at least the opportunity to get to know the JW "truth". Isn't Simon's post actually playing into their hands? About the importance of field service and going to serve where the need is greater?
Posts by Zana
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50Why Finding the One True Religion is Impossible
by Simon injws like to think they have found the one true religion.
but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?
not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?
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Zana
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The Bible or God? - A Message to Formerbrother
by David_Jay in“i still can not find any other option that comes as close to all the bible as jws do.”-- from the profile of formerbrother.. this is lengthy, but it should help you, formerbrother.
the problem is not in your search for this "option" but that you are searching according the criteria set out by the jehovah’s witnesses (and likely following the reasoning set out by their claims).. before proceeding, understand clearly (as there will always be someone reading this that will skip this point that i make) that i am not writing to advance any particular religious view.
though raised and baptized as a jehovah’s witness in my late teen years, i am jewish.
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Zana
David_Jay
1. You proved my point.
Happy to oblige.
And thanks for this info (which I didn't really know about):
If God inspired the Church to canonize the Bible, obviously the Church was doing God's will (but JWs claim it was under Satan by this time). Unlike the Governing Body, the Catholic Church claims it canonized the Scriptures by inspiration of God,
One thing though:
If the Catholic Church had authority and inspiration then, it would not mean they must have it today, too. A lot of time has passed since the canonization, maybe they fell out of favor with God.
Now back to your original idea of this thread:
For Jehovah’s Witnesses that ultimate source of revelation is the Bible. All that one should do to serve God, the basis for one’s belief, the source of all truth is, for Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Bible. I assume this is what you still believe, am I correct?
Formerbrother never answered your question. Maybe you are wrong, and he doesn't believe that. I am not a JW, but I think most of the JW I know wouldn't consider the Bible the ultimate source of revelation. Just a source. God comes first. So there is no paradox.
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The Bible or God? - A Message to Formerbrother
by David_Jay in“i still can not find any other option that comes as close to all the bible as jws do.”-- from the profile of formerbrother.. this is lengthy, but it should help you, formerbrother.
the problem is not in your search for this "option" but that you are searching according the criteria set out by the jehovah’s witnesses (and likely following the reasoning set out by their claims).. before proceeding, understand clearly (as there will always be someone reading this that will skip this point that i make) that i am not writing to advance any particular religious view.
though raised and baptized as a jehovah’s witness in my late teen years, i am jewish.
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Zana
Something from outside the Bible made the Bible "the Bible."
A JW would probably answer: This Something was God, plain and simple. He probably not only inspired the writers, he also inspired those responsible for choosing the chapters that went in and the ones that were kept out. If you believe in the former it's not such a stretch to believe in the latter, too.
And if that is not enough to satisfy you, I would say: "It still is the next best thing" we today can get as a written basis for our beliefs. Better trust this book which was completed within 300 years after Jesus death, than anything newer (for example the mormon book) or anything less reliable (for example catholic traditions subject to change).
And Mary Jones? So what? God must have had his reasons. I could also ask why did God not let Europeans discover America 1000 years earlier? All this time the Native Americans had to live and die without knowing about Jesus. Seems kind of fruitless to ask these kinds of questions.
Look, I think many rank and file JWs are quite pragmatic. Maybe their leadership is not perfect, maybe their doctrine and it's origins are not perfect. Many would claim they don't have to be. They believe in God, they want to know what is his purpose for us, and how they can serve him. And they don't want to do that alone, but together with fellow believers. Using the bible and what it tells us about about early Christianity seems like a good start. Certainly better and more verifiable than what most - if not all - other Christian groups can offer.
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The Bible or God? - A Message to Formerbrother
by David_Jay in“i still can not find any other option that comes as close to all the bible as jws do.”-- from the profile of formerbrother.. this is lengthy, but it should help you, formerbrother.
the problem is not in your search for this "option" but that you are searching according the criteria set out by the jehovah’s witnesses (and likely following the reasoning set out by their claims).. before proceeding, understand clearly (as there will always be someone reading this that will skip this point that i make) that i am not writing to advance any particular religious view.
though raised and baptized as a jehovah’s witness in my late teen years, i am jewish.
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Zana
Interesting read, thanks! I know a JW who might be at a similar point in life like former brother. Same reasoning, he
- believes in God
- believes in Jesus
- believes in the Bible as God's word
- believes he must find/identify God's people so he can serve God together with some likeminded folks
I have been thinking about where I can start to make him question this line of thought. If I were him, I would probably answer to you, David_Jay, somehing like this:
Okay, the New Testament obviously could not be the source or foundation of early Christianity. But they didn't need it then. They had the apostles who talked about Jesus. When they died they still had people tell them what they heard from the apostles about Jesus, maybe passed down one or two generations. But at some point, this wasn't reliable anymore. It needed to be written down. Of course the Bible is only an end product. In itself it cannot be the foundation of Christianity. But I believe it to be the most accurate description about what happened 2000 years ago. So we have to take what we can get, because today we have no God speaking to us directly, no apostles still alive, no prophets, no miracles. The bible is the next best thing, that's why I am willing to base my believes on it.
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Is changing the "truth" / presenting "new light" really so bad?
by Zana inplaying devil's advocate here.... what's the difference between the gb changing bible interpretations compared to parliaments all over the world changing laws?
although the us constitution (=bible) remains untouched, congress passes i don't know how many new laws every year.
and of course people are expected to follow them.
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Zana
Thanks people, for all you answers!
Is this another troll post?
No, it's not. I have two JWs in my life that probably belong in this category:
... OR it is the GB getting it wrong and Jehovah corrects them but then you simply can never ever trust that any doctrine is right.
Except they still trust the GB. So I started this thread in order to get some arguments against their position. These two people accept that the GB are just imperfect men and that they will get it wrong every now and then. But they trust them to try hard enough. And they believe that what the GB presents, is still the next best thing to God's real truth compared to any other religion.
You cannot criticise a current teaching of the WTS. You cannot lobby for change.
When talking about this, one told me, you actually can. His example was a change about the question whether miscarriages or stillborn babies have hope of a resurrection or not. First the GB said, "No, they don't." But after receiving many letters from concerned JWs they changed this to "We don't know."
You can trace most "increasing light" and "clarifications" down to one of the following:
- saving the org money
- making the org money
- minimising legal exposure
- controlling the membership
- covering up prophetic failures
This is very good! I will have to figure out how I can use this in a discussion with JWs without appearing overly aggressive.
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Is changing the "truth" / presenting "new light" really so bad?
by Zana inplaying devil's advocate here.... what's the difference between the gb changing bible interpretations compared to parliaments all over the world changing laws?
although the us constitution (=bible) remains untouched, congress passes i don't know how many new laws every year.
and of course people are expected to follow them.
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Zana
Playing devil's advocate here...
What's the difference between the GB changing bible interpretations compared to parliaments all over the world changing laws? Although the US constitution (=bible) remains untouched, Congress passes I don't know how many new laws every year. And of course people are expected to follow them. You can't tell a jury that this or that wasn't a crime ten years ago, so you can't be judged for it today. Yes, you can!
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meeting with elders about WT involvement in UN
by LevelThePlayingField ini still go to the meetings because of my in wife and it came about that the elders knew of my pissed off attitude about the society getting involved in the un.
so the elders said they could help me get over that and wanted to meet with me.
now just to let you know, i have only told my wife and her mom so far about it, that's it.
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Zana
Still, I know of no way to have the information about the UN except from "apostate" sources. So how do you plan to explain it?? Where did you get that letter?? Were you reading apostate websites?? Why would you even think that such apostate lies might be true??..............DOC
Maybe wikipedia is acceptable? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_and_the_United_Nations
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For My Kids
by myjourney ini haven't been on here much, but every so often i try and keep up with the discussions.
i'm sure this topic has been talked about before, so my apologies in advance if i'm repeating.. a little about me.... i'm a non baptized jw married to a devout jw.
both my husband and i were raised in the organization.
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Zana
Not letting the kiddies get baptized as minors is key.
Exactly. So what does he say to that? What did he answer to your marriage-comparison? Will he agree to wait with the baptism decision until the children are adults?
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Need Suggestions/examples: Guide to helping family & friends break free
by LisaRose ini was going through my copy of steve hassan's combating cult mind control and it occurred to me that it would be great to have something like this specifically for us ex jehovah's witnesses.
while this is a great book, the examples he uses are mostly from people that were moonies, as steve is a former moonie and many people that have contacted him for help were relatives of moonies.
while cults all work basically the same, it would be nice to be have some ideas on things that are specific to jehovah's witnesses.
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Zana
Adding to #2:
Figure out the main reasons why they stay in the cult. This is probably easier with people who converted, because you can ask them why they joined in the first place.
Do they focus on the scripture? Is it the social aspect? Is it the paradise earth promise? ...
Another thing:
The GB is very clever in brainwashing JWs towards thinking that GB = Jehovah. Try to break that thought. If you leave the JWs, that doesn't mean that you leave Jehovah, too (although many eventually will). The GB just offers their interpretation of the scripture. But they are imperfect men. They can be wrong and obviously they were wrong many times in the past.
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For My Kids
by myjourney ini haven't been on here much, but every so often i try and keep up with the discussions.
i'm sure this topic has been talked about before, so my apologies in advance if i'm repeating.. a little about me.... i'm a non baptized jw married to a devout jw.
both my husband and i were raised in the organization.
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Zana
There isn't any balance in my children's lives. It's a repeat of my childhood all over again.
It's not. You know TTATT. Your parents didn't. You can give them balance in their lives. And you can demand the right to do so from your husband without separating from him.