Billy, good thoughts. When you compare European religion outlets with American, it's aparent that American religion is almost like another consumer product. Many people choose their church in the same way they chose which schools their children will attend, and in which neighborhoods they will buy a house. Basically, their choice of "religion" is done in a consumerist way, with the mentality, "does it meet the needs of me and family" as the most important equation. In contrast, it seems may European and Latin-American religious establishments are less yeilding to consumer-driven choice-making. The religion of ones ancestors and community is much more of an important consideration.
daniel-p
JoinedPosts by daniel-p
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14
The Watchtower's Worthless Growth Dilemma
by metatron inplease read:.
http://www.nrc.nl/international/features/article2394314.ece/insecurity_not_education_determines_church_attendance.
this is an interesting study that offers a lot of counterintuitive conclusions.
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According to bookstudy, it's ok to beat wife.....occassionally
by JWinprotest ini apologize if this has been mentioned, but i don't have the time to come on here as often.
yesterday's bookstudy on divorce got my shorts in a bit of a knot.
apparently, according to the god's love book, a wife could consider legal separation from her husband if she is physically abused, but (get this) only in the case of extreme physical abuse, and if the wife's life is in danger.
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daniel-p
I think a lot of JW women will stick with an abusive spouse because it makes them some kind of martyr.
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According to bookstudy, it's ok to beat wife.....occassionally
by JWinprotest ini apologize if this has been mentioned, but i don't have the time to come on here as often.
yesterday's bookstudy on divorce got my shorts in a bit of a knot.
apparently, according to the god's love book, a wife could consider legal separation from her husband if she is physically abused, but (get this) only in the case of extreme physical abuse, and if the wife's life is in danger.
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daniel-p
Wow. A person who hits a woman will do it again. These people are deranged.
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The Watchtower's Worthless Growth Dilemma
by metatron inplease read:.
http://www.nrc.nl/international/features/article2394314.ece/insecurity_not_education_determines_church_attendance.
this is an interesting study that offers a lot of counterintuitive conclusions.
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daniel-p
Here's the most important statement in the whole article: "There is a higher rate of churchgoers amongst educated believers than low-skilled believers."
The question is why the less-educated believers have a lower rate of church attendance.
I'd guess that the low-educated are more insular in their thinking and in how they interact with the world. Other studies have explored the notion that social awareness increases with more education... a pretty basic and universally-held belief. This may be due to the person's increased sense of self-worth, and more importantly, self-efficacy. If you don't believe you have anything to offer the world, or aren't aware of the avenues for doing so, there's no reason to stick yourselves out there and become engaged, whether at schools, churches, politics, etc.
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The Watchtower's Worthless Growth Dilemma
by metatron inplease read:.
http://www.nrc.nl/international/features/article2394314.ece/insecurity_not_education_determines_church_attendance.
this is an interesting study that offers a lot of counterintuitive conclusions.
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daniel-p
Insecurity not education determines church attendance
Published: 22 October 2009 15:32 | Changed: 23 October 2009 15:02
The long-standing theory has been that the higher educated someone is the less religious he will be. But new research in 60 countries proves otherwise. It is economic security that leaves churches empty.
By Dirk Vlasblom
Atheist scientists have been shouting it from the rooftops: anyone who has enjoyed a higher education has no business being in a church. Many European sociologists have offered a rising level of education as the explanation for dwindling church attendance. Now two Dutch sociologists are countering this theory.
Stijn Ruiter, senior researcher at the Netherlands Institute for the Study of Crime and Law Enforcement, and Frank van Tubergen, a professor of sociology in Utrecht, compared 'religious participation' in 60 countries. They found no effect of education, but instead came to the conclusion that social insecurity and the environment people grow up in have a significant impact. Results of their research will be published in the American Journal of Sociology next month.
Resilience of religious America
There are two sides in the religion debate. Most European sociologists say modernisation leads to secularisation. But Peter Berger, the American who came up with that theory, later recanted it after the US proved how an economically developed society with a high level of education can indeed remain very religious.
US scientists subsequently came up with the religious market theory. They say minimal regulation of religion and maximum competition between congregations make for more appealing 'products'. The cacophony of evangelists and the radical separation of church and state would explain the resilience of religious America.
Ruiter and Van Tubergen do not choose sides in this debate. They tested elements of both theories for 60 countries listed in the World Values Survey. From the market theory they examined the idea that more state regulation of religion leads to lower church attendance. Modernisation, the central concept from the other theory, they dissected into three elements: modernisation through higher education, economic security and changes in social relationships by urbanisation and individualisation. They used church attendance as a measure of religiosity.
Socio-economic inequality
Regulation of religion by the state over the entire sample appears to lead to less church attendance. The scientists also see the results of their research as a partial confirmation of the modernisation theory. Partial, because supporters of secularisation attribute this to a scientific worldview, and that, surprisingly enough, proved to be a farce.
"Higher educated people rely more on facts and less on beliefs that can't be validated or are clearly false. Or at least that's the theory," Van Tubergen says. "But that's not what we've seen."
Why not, he can't say. "That's not what we investigated, but we have a hunch. Other research has shown that highly educated people are indeed less religious. But at the same time they tend to be more actively involved in political parties, associations and thus also in churches. Less educated people are more religious, but less active about it. There is a higher rate of churchgoers amongst educated believers than low-skilled believers."
The two other elements of modernisation can be explained: economic (in)security and the nature of social relationships. "Economic uncertainty has enormous impact on church attendance. In countries with large socio-economic inequality, the rich often go to church because they too could lose everything tomorrow, as was clear from the dramatic collapse of Enron and Lehman Brothers."
Close-knit religious communities
Religiosity is also strongly influenced by the social environment, says Van Tubergen. "There have to be parents, neighbours or fellow villagers who say 'let's go' or 'why have I not seen you in church on Sunday?' Whether your friends are practising, what your teachers tell you and how your future partner feels about it are major influences. People who grow up in a religious environment often remain very religious."
But changes in life can change that pattern, such as moving to a city and decreasing social control as a result of that. People who do so are more likely to become detached from their religion. On the other hand, religious communities tend to be very close-knit and children often remain in the community," Ruiter says.
The study explains at least two examples of increased or persistent religiosity under conditions of modernisation: Eastern Europe and the United States. In Eastern Europe after the fall of communism the state restrictions on religion disappeared while at the same time the transition to a capitalist system boosted economic uncertainty. So churches have filled up over the past 20 years.
Welfare state empties out churches
The US is no exception to the rule. "The US has long been regarded as a special case: a developed country and scientific vanguard that is exceptionally religious. But past researchers did not take uncertainties resulting from the high socio-economic inequality into account. In the US you can quickly climb the social ladder, but you can fall off very hard," Ruiter explains.
Van Tubergen: "Conversely, the link between religiosity and uncertainty explains why the churches in the Netherlands have emptied out. As a result of the welfare state great security can be found outside the walls of the church. It would be interesting to examine the impact of the current economic crisis on church attendance."
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Swine Flu
by purplesofa inwell, i was wondering if anyone here has had swine flu?.
i got it last week.. my son, daughter and granddaughter have it now.. jada was sent to the emergency room at the childrens hospitol here yesterday.
her symptoms were bad and she is under two.. so they sent her there.. the entire emergency room staff, security etc were wearing masks.. apparently it is getting worse here, the amount of cases.. it was a brutal sickness, i can't imagine babies and elderly dealing with it well at all.. although, i got sick with the symptoms a week ago, i feel very weak and tired and have a terrible cough still.. i read on one site the symptoms being disorientation and confusion, which i experianced.. has anyone here had it, how did you survive it?.
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daniel-p
thats too bad.. i hope i dont get it this year.. im trying to trick my mind out of it, especially when i ride the bus to work with people coughing and what not... we'll see
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Astronomers spot 'most distant object in the universe'
by Doug Mason infrom the online news at yahoo for 29 october 2009:.
scientists have observed the most distant object in the universe, thought to come from a star that exploded more than 13 billion years ago.
the research team, published their findings in the journal "nature".
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daniel-p
I've always wondered how they can say a dinosaur lived 'this' long ago or that planet is 'that old' etc.
wantstoleave, scientists use a few things they they know are constants, such as how long it takes light to travel, to measure how old things are in space. On earth, they often use other constants like the rate at which it takes certain radioactive elements to decay. These elements are in things like rock and wood, so scientists can explain how old things are.
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Chimpanzees mourn at burial of elderly relative . . . .
by nicolaou instaff of the sanaga-yong chimpanzee rescue centre let the chimps watch the burial of dorothy, an elderly chimpanzee, so they could come to terms with her loss.. workers at the chimp rescue centre in east cameroon were surprised to see the entire family rush to the perimeter of their enclosure to pay their final respects.
the normally lively and noisy animals stood silently in line with their hands on each others shoulders for comfort.
they then watched, apparently in quiet contemplation, as the elderly chimp, aged in her 30s, was buried.
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daniel-p
This photo is taken to make this look like a human funeral. I doubt very much the chimps saw it that way. In fact I'm not sure sadness can be seen in these chimps, let alone mourning. I think curiosity is more likely in most of the chimps seen here. IMHO
I think anthropomorphism is especially pronounced with chimps.
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Chimpanzees mourn at burial of elderly relative . . . .
by nicolaou instaff of the sanaga-yong chimpanzee rescue centre let the chimps watch the burial of dorothy, an elderly chimpanzee, so they could come to terms with her loss.. workers at the chimp rescue centre in east cameroon were surprised to see the entire family rush to the perimeter of their enclosure to pay their final respects.
the normally lively and noisy animals stood silently in line with their hands on each others shoulders for comfort.
they then watched, apparently in quiet contemplation, as the elderly chimp, aged in her 30s, was buried.
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daniel-p
I do not agree. Different degrees of meaning exist. If something is "almost tangible," that means it is not quite. That is a different and more narrow expression than "not tangible," the only expression you are recognizing.
I am not just recognizing silence or no silence, but think that a more presice description would serve their intent better, as I mentioned above with "the low chirps and other sounds uncharacteristic of their normal chatter." The reality was that the chimps were being uncharacteristically quiet, not "almost tangibly silent," which, again sounds fucking stupid.
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Swine Flu
by purplesofa inwell, i was wondering if anyone here has had swine flu?.
i got it last week.. my son, daughter and granddaughter have it now.. jada was sent to the emergency room at the childrens hospitol here yesterday.
her symptoms were bad and she is under two.. so they sent her there.. the entire emergency room staff, security etc were wearing masks.. apparently it is getting worse here, the amount of cases.. it was a brutal sickness, i can't imagine babies and elderly dealing with it well at all.. although, i got sick with the symptoms a week ago, i feel very weak and tired and have a terrible cough still.. i read on one site the symptoms being disorientation and confusion, which i experianced.. has anyone here had it, how did you survive it?.
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daniel-p
Although, I got sick with the symptoms a week ago, I feel very weak and tired and have a terrible cough still.
I read on one site the symptoms being disorientation and confusion, which I experianced.
Disorientation and confusion often accompany fever, which the flu involves. These symptoms are nothing new... the flu always sucks, swine or not.
