james_woods

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Posts by james_woods

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  59

  What MUST Jw's believe that they don't KNOW they believe?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm looking for beliefs of jw's that have the consequence of also requiring some other belief that they may not like or be able to explain.. for instance, you probably believe that there are an infinite number of numbers, since you can always add 1 to any number and make a new one.. what you may not think about as a consequence of that belief is that you can also start with 2, add 2, and create an infinite series of even numbers.

  the set of even numbers is infinite, and the set of whole numbers (which would fully encompass the even numbers) is also infinite.

  so which set is bigger?

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  james_woods

  More fun with math: ( reductio ad absurdum ) - we try to prove something that is ridiculous, but then end up proving it is absurd, and so therefore it must be false.

  Example: assume that the square root of 2 is some fraction of two integers: maybe some two numbers like a/b...

  [proof follows, edited for clarity, but please see the wonderful book "The Golden Ratio" by Mario Livio, pages 38-39.]

  to paraphrase Livio: by process of logic, one can show that the common denominator of "b" is AT THE SAME TIME both an EVEN and an ODD number. This means therefore, NO square root of ANY number which is not a perfect square ( 9 and 4 are perfect, but NOT 2 or 3, etc.) can possibly be expressed as a whole number or even by a fraction of two whole numbers. They are therefore IRRATIONAL numbers. They produce decimal fractions without end, like Pi or Theta.

  Legend has it that when the ancient greek numerologists discovered these irrational numbers, they tried to keep them secret from outsiders (did not fit their god concept!), and if any student revealed them to the "unwashed", then such a person would be PUT TO DEATH.

  Sound a little like the Governing Body circa 1979 and the "chronology"?
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  36

  Lurkers and JW apologists: Please read this experience and consider.

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was on another thread (jwfacts' one about his jc meeting) that i posted a personal experience and it occurred to me, that although it is well behind me and i don't dwell on it (much!

  ), it may be of some help to those who visit here and are unsure what they think about their jw beliefs.. i wrote:.

  mrs ozzie and i agreed to have a representative from bethel come to visit us as a friend.

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  james_woods

  Ozzie, what year was that?

  I assume you do not keep a pistol in the house.
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  59

  What MUST Jw's believe that they don't KNOW they believe?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm looking for beliefs of jw's that have the consequence of also requiring some other belief that they may not like or be able to explain.. for instance, you probably believe that there are an infinite number of numbers, since you can always add 1 to any number and make a new one.. what you may not think about as a consequence of that belief is that you can also start with 2, add 2, and create an infinite series of even numbers.

  the set of even numbers is infinite, and the set of whole numbers (which would fully encompass the even numbers) is also infinite.

  so which set is bigger?

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  james_woods

  I always found it easier to grasp the concept of the infinity by mentally just calling it by some synonym "an endless recursion, or regression" or similar...endless just means let the computer run forever and since it never can, it is pointless if there seem to be "more" numbers in one sequence or another - i.e. whole numbers vs. even whole numbers, etc. - but then, that's just my way to get a handle on it.

  However, working off that, it got me thinking about the Fibonacci series...you just start with 1 and each next number is the sum of the previous two numbers... 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 and so on. It is infinite, too.

  I have a book which makes an anology of these numbers to "mating pairs of rabbits"...assuming that 1 means a male and female pair. They create a sort of idealized population growth mapping as new rabbits are born and grow up to mate again within half a generation. Of course, to be precise you would have to fix some formulation for older rabbits dying, wars, mormon rabbits, homoerotic rabbits, celibate rabbits, etc...but, it got me thinking about the number to be resurected after the big A.

  I guess you see where I am going? I have not done any real research on it, yet have always have had the sneaking suspicion that this would pretty much blow the population question for the 1000 year reign out of the water. After all, humans do not breed like rabbits; we have a pretty much 1 - 1.3 or maybe as low as 1 - 0.85 growth rate now. This means previous dead generations are nearly as big as current population with each iteration. And this really matters NOW - with the high earth population of today! If these prophecies do not get around to coming about soon, the world will have passed through several past and several more future multi-billion generations. Where is the WT going to put them?

  Yet, the typical JW believes in New Earth unconditionally. The implication would be that wiith most all these people back, the princes have a big food, housing, and infrastructure problem. And, don't forget that even if the electric plants, harvest equipment, etc. are left intact, everyone of that last generation (who knew how to work the stuff) are melted in the big one! The princes can mostly print magazines (if they had ink and electricity), wash windows, and clean a latrine. The past generations that come back knew how to fire a steam locomotive, loot and pillage, hunt bison, etc.

  Of course, you can get past it all by just saying you have faith everything will be taken care of...
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  6

  Earth:Will our cradle also be our grave?

  by IronGland in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  will we ever get off this rock?

  we have two options for interstellar travel, fast or slow.

  going fast will require technology we can barely comprehend yet, but even travelling at 99% the speed of light would only make 1% of our galaxy traversable within a human lifetime.

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  james_woods

  There is a very good book which deals with the feasibility of interstellar space travel from a logical viewpoint: "Beyond Star Trek" by Lawrence M. Krauss. I found it in a local book store, but it is also on amazon. Krauss is a realistic thinker and deals with things like "what kind of propulsion would be needed", "how much would it have to weigh to carry enough fuel and supplies", "can we get back again" and such. He discounts such stuff as wormhole, warp, etc. as Sci-Fi nonsense (at least for the time being) just like our thread creator asked. He does bring up the idea of matter/antimatter fuels but then exposes how impossibly difficult it would be to create and contain the needed amount of antimatter.

  He pretty much paints the picture that solar system travel might be realistic in another 50-100 years but that star travel is probably a figment of imagination at our current level of science. He also makes the point that you could use reverse logic to say that this kind of thinking makes 100' diameter flying discs from beyond the galaxy visiting earth pretty silly.

  Anyway, wouldn't it be the ultimate bummer to dodge space debris all the way from Alpha Centauri down to Euless, Tx. and then just ignominously smash into some farmers windmill?

  Can't you space aliens watch where you are going? Or at least put it on autopilot?
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  16

  “The Divine Termination of the Marital Arrangement” - I need an old timer

  by Bonnie_Clyde in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i talked about this on gophers post about you cannot live forever on paradise earth, but thought i would start a separate one as i need an old timer who can remember attending a witness wedding in the 1950s.

  gopher asked

  : what happens if the earth (in such a paradise) reaches the point of overpopulation, meaning there are not enough food and other resources available for continued growth?

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  james_woods

  Yes, this is the way I remember things from 1962-1980 or so.

  There was also great speculation on how much technology would be present - electricity, buildings, etc.;but especially CARS!

  Being a teenage kid and of course a car freak, this was issue #1 with me. I recall that a watchtower came out with a picture of the new earth where some guy was plowing his field with a TRACTOR! Well whoopee-whoopee: it was easy to logically derive that tractor had to come from a factory; it had to have gas, so probably CARS would be around as well. But all hopes were dashed when the circuit overseer pointed out that it was just a picture and "we do not know what jehovah will provide until the time comes".

  But I'll bet that he secretly believed that for sure there would be printing presses.
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  30

  My conversation with an elder

  by Dune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well this happened to me a few weeks ago, but i chose to post it later because i'm paranoid.

  anyway, i was riding in field service with an elder and our conversation turned to apostasy.

  well, he turned it to apostasy because he usually dominates 99% of the conversations we have.but i digress, this is how our conversation went.

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  james_woods

  AK - Jeff is exactly right about the 1925 date during the 1975 era. It was NEVER mentioned back then, but I found it in old literature and pointed it out during my DFing experience in 1980. I got told that this was obviously old light and looking at it was to invite the nastiest sort of Demon into my mind - (or was it my thinking heart?)

  Funny, though - the Great Crowd and the "millions now living" stuff from the same 5-10 year time span were all still just fine...

  And I wonder how many today are being told that the Charles Taze SUCCESSFULLY prophecied the first world war in 1914? (instead of totally BLOWING on the end of the world and christs presence).
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  23

  Dub women and make up

  by MsMcDucket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i became a witness, the sisters were on me about not wearing make-up.

  it seemed like every sister in the hall wore make-up.

  i, coming from a "holiness" background, didn't feel comfortable in make-up; so, i usually didn't wear any.

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  james_woods

  The Tammy Faye thing was just a joke, we all know Jimmie is buried under the end zone of the Giants stadium.

  On the sad reality side, though, was a sister that I knew in an adjoining congregation many years ago. She was an outstandingly attractive lady, but she was getting up into late 40 - early 50 age. So, she goes out secretively to have a face lift. During the operation, the anaesthesiologist somehow botches the job, and lets her go without oxygen long enough to put her basically brain dead like the Terri Shiavo case. Now, next of kin was a JW and of course they cannot let her go, so starts a long vigil in the vegetative state. What was even more sad was the often-repeated comment by many of the elders "see - this all happened because of this sister's vanity"...using this tragedy as a lesson to beat up on the women in their congregations on makeup and appearance.

  Another disgusting case I personally knew of was a very beautiful late 30's new convert who was platinum blond from when she started coming to the hall for about a year. She then shows up in a jet black full wig, and naturally gets hammered for it. She goes into a crying fit, and pulls it off right in front of the elder jerks, to show them that she is all the way bald. The platinum blond was also a wig; she was undergoing chemo-therapy for cancer and she thought the black would be LESS flashy than the blond. She had actually started coming to the meetings because of her condition (to please husband who was sort of an inactive witness guy) and because she knew she did not have much time left. She passed away about a year or so later. I wonder if the pig that did this ever feels guilty over it.

  Done ranting...James
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  23

  Dub women and make up

  by MsMcDucket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i became a witness, the sisters were on me about not wearing make-up.

  it seemed like every sister in the hall wore make-up.

  i, coming from a "holiness" background, didn't feel comfortable in make-up; so, i usually didn't wear any.

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  james_woods

  Did you know what they found when they scraped all the makeup off Tammy Faye?

  Jimmie Hoffa-
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  62

  Beards are evil, but do you know why?

  by free2beme in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as a witness, i knew several men who attempted to grow beards.

  when they did, and attended meetings, it did not take long to be talked to by elders and told, "as spiritual men, they should not display an outward form of rebellion.

  " why was this a form of rebellion?

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  james_woods

  As I recall, in the 1960-1980 time frame, the explanation was the "hippie" reference. No word at all about the Judge vs Charles Taze, of course. An interesting sidelight was that black brothers were allowed to have a moustache (but I think not a full beard) because of "cultural" reasons. This really meant that nobody wanted to start anything with racial overtones.

  There was also the critical issue of the width of the tie. It was grossly anti-theocratic to have a tie less than about 1-1/4" or greater than about 2" in width. But, black brothers again were exempted and allowed to wear those white shirts with really tiny collars and really skinny ties about 3/4" in width. (Think Malcolm X to get the picture) Us guys in the white congregations were of course insanely jealous on both counts, even if we were too young to grow any kind of facial hair at the time.

  Full beard for me now, but neatly trimmed -

  James
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  19

  You might be an Islamist if......

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  due to the popularity of the previous article of this nature, it's time for the next installment of; you might be an islamist if....... .

  ....you kill all of your daughters because it is the 'honorable' thing to do after accusing your wife of adultery.

  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051228/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_honor_killings .

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  james_woods

  You believe that George W. made the Tsunami by setting off an H-bomb under the Indian Ocean on that fault line.

  You might not be if you believe Madonna's Kabala guru who said Tsunami was God's revenge on Muslims. When asked about the Holocaust on Jews same guy said that was because they were not good Jews because they didn't follow the Kabala.

  Then, there was Rev. Franklin Graham who intimated that Katrina was Gods judgement on decadent New Orleans...(you know, house of the rising sun and all...) so I guess you could be an Islamicist and believe that one.