When Rutherford confiscated the Organization, they did split into splitter groups. But, who is going to have enough power and nerve to do what Rutherford did?
Analysis
JoinedPosts by Analysis
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9
Two Futures - Which Will Prevail?
by metatron inrecent events in watchtower-land (part of fantasy-land?
) bring into sharp focus.
the two possible futures that the organization can take:.
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21
HAVE YOU LOST YOUR HOPE?
by minimus inone of the major reasons people get attracted to the jw's is because of their new found "hope".
if you are disillusioned or are no longer a jw , do you feel that you still have hope?
or are you unsure, now, about alot of things?
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Analysis
I think the Jefferson Airplane stated it this way:
"When the Truth is Found to be Lies, the Joy within you dies!"
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12
The High Price of Watchtower Pretension
by metatron ini think we have entered an era where the future of the watchtower is threatened by the.
cost of its own pretensions.
declaring that everyone else is going to die at armageddon.
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Analysis
It is good to hope; However the death spiral most likely will take a very long time. The primary reason that large companies or countries like the Soviet Union collapse is because of debt. They implode because no one will extend them credit or they don't have the money to purchase the resources required. The WTBS can scale back as they have been doing and survive a very long time.
Some feel that the lawsuits will be the deathblow. However, even if they lose in Courts, the appeals process could take a very long time. It will be years before they would actually pay any large sums of money. Granted, I think the decisions they are making are short term in focus and will lead to the demise of the better part of the organization. But, if you were 85 wouldn't your thinking be short term in nature.
Edited by - Analysis on 21 August 2002 12:45:49
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Reparations & Protest
by Larry inthis weekend i'm going to dc for the reparation march.
i know this is an highly volatile subject for some so i'm not even going to ask for opinions.
but, for the record here's my stand - i'm for reparations based on principle.
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Analysis
Let me say that what was done both to the Africans and the Native Americans was a horrible part of the American History. It was all of the Americas not just the US. And even to this day, many of their descendents suffer from what happened. One of the worst examples of the ill treatment was what Andrew Jackson's Administration did to the Native Americans.
But, one must remember that most of those who came to the Americas to make a home for themselves, did so not as a privileged class of people, but most were forced from their countries because who they were are what they believed. Most hoped to have a new beginning here. Sadly a few decided to enslave others, but that was not the majority. Many came over as indentured servants, just to make and new start to this country.
With that said, I know you didn't ask for comments, but I just want to ask a few questions to get your viewpoint. For the most part others have asked them. I think Crazy151drinker and I are on the same page on many of these points.
Over 60,000,000 people have immigrated to the US since 1861. Many of the over 600,000 that came during the Civil War came to fight for the North. Most of those in the US today are direct descendents of these immigrants. What do you think they owe?
Even for those who lived in the US before the war, many had no involvement in slavery. By far slaveholders were in the minority. Even my relatives, who lived in a slave state never, I repeat never owned slaves. They were small tenant farmers. What do they owe?
Over 360,000 Union Solders died either by disease or by a direct result of the war. What do their relatives owe?
Many of the Africans sent to the US were captured by other Africans and sold to the Slave Traders. If the Slave Traders had not received the support of other Africans, there would have been far fewer slaves in the New World. What is your organization doing to address those who benefited that still live in Africa?
Several leading thinkers at the time wanted to repatriate Slaves to Africa. If they had been successful, would the average African American be better off today?
What percent of African Americans can claim their forefathers were slaves held by US Slaveholders? Note I didn't say prove I know that can be difficult
If you could identify who benefited from slavery, then I would agree that you have a rights in the US Civil Courts. I would even say that the statute of limitations should never expire. However, most if not all of the large slaveholders were totally wiped out in the war. Granted I think you may be able to identify banks, insurance companies or other large firms that may have benefited. But, with our modern day ownership of companies you would be taking money from many stockholders that had nothing to do with slavery.
Throughout history man has found away to disgrace themselves in the ill treatment of their fellow man. I think everyone could claim that their forefathers were greatly disadvantaged by someone or some group of people. Everyone lives on land that was taken from someone. We who find themselves alive in the US in the year 2002 should be grateful. People in many parts of the world take great risks to have the opportunity we have.
As to your point: "We have to assimilate to survive in the US at the expense of losing our ancestral heritage." That is true of everyone in the US or any country in this world. The Celts had to first bend to Roman Rule, then to Saxon Rule, then Viking Rule then to Norman Rule. But, that is what makes them British today. The language we use on this board is a direct result of this assimilation. I would say African Americans in the US have more in common with the vast hordes of immigrants that now make up the Americas then they do with their ancestors in Africa.
Edited by - Analysis on 16 August 2002 15:44:20
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11
What will a JW do if the Watchtower changes.......
by JCISGOD98 insince the watchtower is known infamously for changing doctrine back and forth and they can't make up their minds at the headquarters, i was wondering about an important question that should be asked to every jehovah's witness that you may come across with.
what happens if the watchtower changes a doctrine that they now consider old light?
let me elaborate on this question.
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Analysis
I know that your example of worship of Jesus is just an example. Let's look at what they did in the past on major doctrinal changes. What has the average JWs done in the past?
- The majority will accept the change without thinking. They will say the light is getting brighter.
- The clueless will never realize that they actually made a change. I thought it was funny that after the WTBTS acknowledged that maybe it did rain before the flood, many JWs still believed that the Flood was the first time it every rained on the earth.
- A few just drift away.
- Some will run away.
Edited by - Analysis on 5 August 2002 11:26:24
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Car Wars
by Crystal intoday i had my jeep towed into the shop..i dreaded the ride in with the driver (im extremly shy).
but we ended up haveing a great conversation about what vehicle i should buy next.. what a perfect person to ask cuz of his job.
he said "dont get another jeep they roll too easy and they catch on fire.".
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Analysis
How long did you drive the Jeep? How old is it and how many miles?
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33
The Rich Get Richer......
by VioletAnai inhttp://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/story_36095.asp
i think you know where i'm headed with this....... i just don't understand how many praise our economic system and yet it leaves millions behind.
it denies many necessities from many people all for the sake of the comforts of the rich nations.
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Analysis
Crownboy, I guess something like that would work. Maybe something like School Vouchers where you get to select the HMO that treats you.
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33
The Rich Get Richer......
by VioletAnai inhttp://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/story_36095.asp
i think you know where i'm headed with this....... i just don't understand how many praise our economic system and yet it leaves millions behind.
it denies many necessities from many people all for the sake of the comforts of the rich nations.
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Analysis
Derrick
Even if you are correct and only a "few humans were producing goods and robots/nanobots were doing the production, the U.S. would produce more than any nation on Earth."
You forget that most of the Gross National Product of the US is in areas other then manufacturing. Even rich retired people want to travel, eat in nice restaurants, go to concerts movies and sports events, they will have insurance agents, bankers, lawyers, Doctors, Brokers and maybe attend some sort of higher learning institutions. And just like computers someone has to design and program the next generation robot/nanobots. So I still think most of the world's middle class will find work.
To Crownboy
I hope the government never gets to the point that they provide universal health care. The reason is that Health Care is not one size fits all. Not every treatment will work on every person. HMOs refuse certain treatments now. What would it be like if the Government could mandate what and who could be treated. Remember that the Clinton's Universal Health Plan would have made it illegal for you to directly pay a doctor for treatment that was not approved by the government. So you have a wife, husband, mother, father or child who needs some treatment that the Government decided would be a waste of taxpayer funds, what would you do?
Edited by - Analysis on 26 July 2002 9:4:5
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33
The Rich Get Richer......
by VioletAnai inhttp://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/story_36095.asp
i think you know where i'm headed with this....... i just don't understand how many praise our economic system and yet it leaves millions behind.
it denies many necessities from many people all for the sake of the comforts of the rich nations.
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Analysis
Derrick what is your theory a mass welfare state or the solution that brings on Peace and Security?
Your mass welfare theory is very similar to the The Ludites". In that machines will replace the need for workers. They were wrong, the world found that cheaper clothing was beneficial for society. The future will prove you wrong also.
Some Modern Ludites think that the future of the US is for the average person is to become a fast food worker, because all the manufacturing jobs are being exported. However, the productivity of US is far higher than anywhere else in the world. Even the Germans and Japanese have moved manufacturing plants to the US because of these productivity numbers.
Is it possible for the US to fall behind the rest of the world in some key areas? Yes. Fall as bad as Rome into the Dark Ages? Again it is possible. But, where would the money come for a massive welfare state come from? If people don't have money they don't pay taxes.
As far as Peace and Security and JWs viewpoint; first they say it may just be a call of Peace and Security and not real peace and prosperity. So they get it right no matter what happens.
Edited by - Analysis on 25 July 2002 15:56:33
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The Rich Get Richer......
by VioletAnai inhttp://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/story_36095.asp
i think you know where i'm headed with this....... i just don't understand how many praise our economic system and yet it leaves millions behind.
it denies many necessities from many people all for the sake of the comforts of the rich nations.
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Analysis
One can always prove that the rich are in fact getting richer. But, consider for a moment what the poor can have in todays industrialized world.
Air Conditioning
Color TV
Inside plumbing
Most have all the food they could want
An opportunity to own land and a home
To have family and friends
Equal access to some basic level of education
In fact they have more comforts then Royalty had just a couple hundred years ago. And for the most part the work is easier then it was even 50 years ago.
So why is most of the world still in poverty? The same reason that Jehovahs Witnesses are in the situation they are in, the leaders. Their lust for power and control is not conducive to the well being of those they claim leadership over. They plan dont get it that the better the common people have life, the more they can collect in taxes (or contributions) to improve the leaders position in life. Just plan stupid greed.
All of us must reflect on what we have done to get to the place we are today. I know some are truly disadvantaged, because of the location and time they were born. But, too many people rise above their birth in this day and age to continue to blame our circumstances. Some of the posts in this thread point this out. While the leaders to deprive many of their right to enjoy life, we can not give up, if we do, what we get is only what others are willing to give us.