Inquisitor

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Posts by Inquisitor

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  93

  Christianity did NOT borrow from pagan "Dying-Rising" God motifs

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a fallacy that the early christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising god-man on the loom of mystery religions.

  the idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the christian concept of the death and resurrection of christ was popularized by james frazer in the golden bough, first published in 1906. scholar edwin yamauchi (1974; easter: myth, hallucination, or history?

  ) has observed that, although frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since frazers ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960s.

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  Inquisitor

  If I had a choice in a savior over the Greek gods of myth or Jesus the son of God...Guess which one I would choose?

  Err.. Zeus? Eros? ... Pete Sampras? Billy Zane?

  INQ
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  93

  Christianity did NOT borrow from pagan "Dying-Rising" God motifs

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a fallacy that the early christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising god-man on the loom of mystery religions.

  the idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the christian concept of the death and resurrection of christ was popularized by james frazer in the golden bough, first published in 1906. scholar edwin yamauchi (1974; easter: myth, hallucination, or history?

  ) has observed that, although frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since frazers ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960s.

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  Inquisitor

  Christianity is mostly based on faith, not certainty, and it certainly can't be proven on purely a rational basis. It also cannot be UN-proven on purely a rational basis.

  Everything is relative?? Surely one can prove whether or not there was or was not a man called Christ who walked the earth 2000 years ago. And failing that, surely with the supporting evidence for or against his existence, one can estimate the given probability that his existence was genuine or fake. And with that estimated probabilities, one can then decide for oneself if he or she believes that there was a man called Jesus Christ (in whatever language it was that they used in his 'hood then).

  THAT is how we resolve facts for ourselves. I don't believe in nebulous knowledge, where we don't know what we know or don't know and we never will.

  INQ feeling very un-agnostic this evening...
• 
  93

  Christianity did NOT borrow from pagan "Dying-Rising" God motifs

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a fallacy that the early christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising god-man on the loom of mystery religions.

  the idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the christian concept of the death and resurrection of christ was popularized by james frazer in the golden bough, first published in 1906. scholar edwin yamauchi (1974; easter: myth, hallucination, or history?

  ) has observed that, although frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since frazers ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960s.

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  Inquisitor

  What then possessed Paul to keep up with proclaiming the story of the ficitional God-Man Jesus, you say was made up, even knowing it would lead to his horrible death? I think this is a very valid question. Btw, most scholars believe Paul was beheaded. How many here would go to their beheading for a fictional character?

  Dear lovelylil,

  What possessed Marshall Herf Applewhite to keep up with proclaiming the story of the fly-by UFO, which we know was made up, even knowing it would lead to his horrible death (and 38 other followers of the Heaven's Gate cult)?

  When answered this question you have, know my reply you will.

  INQ
• 
  93

  Christianity did NOT borrow from pagan "Dying-Rising" God motifs

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a fallacy that the early christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising god-man on the loom of mystery religions.

  the idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the christian concept of the death and resurrection of christ was popularized by james frazer in the golden bough, first published in 1906. scholar edwin yamauchi (1974; easter: myth, hallucination, or history?

  ) has observed that, although frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since frazers ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960s.

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  Inquisitor

  You would think if the early disciples of Christ or church fathers wanted to create an entirely fictional character named Jesus, that they would make sure there were NO similarites with any other religious beliefs, so that they would not be accused of plagerism.

  So the plagiarised Christ would be unlike anything we've ever heard of? Interesting...

  INQ
• 
  93

  Christianity did NOT borrow from pagan "Dying-Rising" God motifs

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a fallacy that the early christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising god-man on the loom of mystery religions.

  the idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the christian concept of the death and resurrection of christ was popularized by james frazer in the golden bough, first published in 1906. scholar edwin yamauchi (1974; easter: myth, hallucination, or history?

  ) has observed that, although frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since frazers ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960s.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Inquisitor

  You would think if the early disciples of Christ or church fathers wanted to create an entirely fictional character named Jesus, that they would make sure there were NO similarites with any other religious beliefs, so that they would not be accused of plagerism.

  So the plagiarised Christ would be unlike anything we've ever heard of? Interesting...

  INQ
• 
  93

  Christianity did NOT borrow from pagan "Dying-Rising" God motifs

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a fallacy that the early christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising god-man on the loom of mystery religions.

  the idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the christian concept of the death and resurrection of christ was popularized by james frazer in the golden bough, first published in 1906. scholar edwin yamauchi (1974; easter: myth, hallucination, or history?

  ) has observed that, although frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since frazers ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960s.

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  Inquisitor

  Dear lovelylil

  One question that you might like to ponder is:

  If Christianity had indeed plagiarised the concepts from pagan religions, what would you expect the evidence to look like?

  Again, the point is that although the similarities make it SEEM like these are the same teachings of Plato, or the Stoics, they are not.

  What then would the teachings have to look like if they were indeed from Plato and/or the Stoics?

  Would they be any different from what they are now?

  INQ
• 
  93

  Christianity did NOT borrow from pagan "Dying-Rising" God motifs

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a fallacy that the early christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising god-man on the loom of mystery religions.

  the idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the christian concept of the death and resurrection of christ was popularized by james frazer in the golden bough, first published in 1906. scholar edwin yamauchi (1974; easter: myth, hallucination, or history?

  ) has observed that, although frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since frazers ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960s.

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  Inquisitor

  sorry, but PBS won't work. they're part of a "liberal goddless conspiracy" to subvert he faith of wholesome chirstians, that dates all the way back to ancient "pagan" times. [gasp!!] tetra

  WHAT!!? Not even if the PBS-hosted information had been received from a professor of New Testament Yale Divinity School?? It wouldn't work even if the interviewer had stooped down to presume that Christ was a living, breathing human being? Tsk Tsk Tsk..... INQ
• 
  93

  Christianity did NOT borrow from pagan "Dying-Rising" God motifs

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a fallacy that the early christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising god-man on the loom of mystery religions.

  the idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the christian concept of the death and resurrection of christ was popularized by james frazer in the golden bough, first published in 1906. scholar edwin yamauchi (1974; easter: myth, hallucination, or history?

  ) has observed that, although frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since frazers ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960s.

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  Inquisitor

  Even the premier liberal German historian of early Christianity during the first three decades of the twentieth century, Adolf von Harnack (1911), admitted:
  “We must reject the comparative mythology which finds a causal between everything and everything else…By such methods one can turn Christ into a sun god in the twinkling of an eye, or one can bring up the legends attending the birth of every conceivable god, or one can catch all sorts of mythological doves to keep company with the baptismal dove…the wand of “comparative religion” triumphantly eliminate(s) every spontaneous trait in religion.”

  So we reject the method because we fear the findings? That's hardly being objective, much less truthful.

  Nash (2003) states: “The uncompromising monotheism and the exclusiveness that the early church preached and practiced make the possibility of any pagan inroads…unlikely, if not impossible.”
  
  Metzger (1968) makes the same point: “Another methodological consideration, often overlooked by scholars who are better acquainted with Hellenistic culture than with Jewish, is involved in the circumstance that the early Palestinian Church was composed of Christians from a Jewish background, whose generally strict monotheism and traditional intolerance of syncretism must have militated against wholesale borrowing from pagan cults.

  No inroads into Judaism? Intolerance of syncretism? Are they asserting that the entire 1st century Jewish nation successfully insulated themselves from the Hellenization process?

  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/hellenisticculture.html

  If the Jews prior to Christ had embraced philosophies from the "outside", what reason is there to suppose that early Christian ideas MUST BE novel, since to quote Metzger, "the early Palestinian Church was composed of Christians from a Jewish background"?

  Those who see parallels every which way between the NT and other religions fall into the ‘terminological fallacy’.

  If there is any dependant relationship between the mysteries and Christianity, as some liberal scholars contend, it is for the most part a REVERSED dependency.

  Fancy jargon. Care to share some examples of these two types of "errors"?

  INQ
• 
  93

  Christianity did NOT borrow from pagan "Dying-Rising" God motifs

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a fallacy that the early christians weaved the tale of a dying and rising god-man on the loom of mystery religions.

  the idea of the dying-rising god as a parallel to the christian concept of the death and resurrection of christ was popularized by james frazer in the golden bough, first published in 1906. scholar edwin yamauchi (1974; easter: myth, hallucination, or history?

  ) has observed that, although frazer marshaled many parallels, the foundation was very fragile and has been discredited by a host of scholars since frazers ideas were at the height of their popularity in the 1960s.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Inquisitor

  dear yadda2

  The differences between the mythologies and the life of Christ are NOT what require an explanation. It is the similarities, the homologies that started the inquiry.

  Nash's six "points of contrast" are spouted off in complete ignorance of the fact that mythologies are rarely plagiarised in its raw, original, untouched form. Of course there will be differences. Nash should try telling us something we don't know!! Tales are passed on with a different cultural twist. Ever played Chinese whispers? Again, explain the similarities, not the differences. The same protest could be applied to what Metzger and Yamauchi had to say about the comparison.

  Personally, I find the correlation striking but have yet to be convinced of a causal link between the Christ myth and the older myths. To deny that there is any parallel at all seems abit foolish and stubborn.

  INQ
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  7

  Male Sexual Assault - Myths and Reality

  by Lady Lee in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  after a recent disussion on the board i thought it might be hepful to post some information.. the counseling and mental health center at the university of texas has a great website that discusses the issue for men only: for male survivors of sexual assault .

  myth vs. realitylet's take a look at some mistaken beliefs about male sexual assault and uncover the realities behind the myths.... myth: men can't be sexually assaulted.

  reality: men are sexually assaulted.

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  Inquisitor

  Thanks for this info Lady Lee

  Our society could use some help to cut through all that macho bullsh*t.

  INQ