Posts by Inquisitor

11

Aussie news today Are most Muslim crazed fanatics or what?

by Witness 007 in

in bali yesterday three terrorist who bombed two night clubs killing and injuring many hundreds of aussies were executed by firing squad.

huge crowds of angry people showed up to support these martyrs.

in bali most people treat them like rock stars....the same with 9/11 middle eastern people dancing in the streets.

Inquisitor

"too many muslims go nudge, nudge wink wink at muslim terrorists though"

But how many is "too many"? Who is doing the counting? Fox News? Michelle Malkin? And again I have to ask, what sort of a Muslim are you talking about? Bin Laden? Tariq Ramadan? Waleed Aly? Anwar Ibrahim? Do you know who are the latter three?

Is it logically sound for me to use the entire congregation of the Westboro Baptist Church as a measure of what Christians do? How about the Mormons? JWs?

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you, stilla, and believe it is morally wrong for any Muslim to justify terrorist acts with the grievances done to his/her homeland or religious/ethnic community.

But what I ask is that you clarify what you mean by "too many Muslims" or as the thread title says "most Muslims".

How many Christians does it take to oppose abortion and gay rights for me to decide that most Christians are misogynists and homophobes?

The stupid response to this problem (as FairMind has so unwittingly demonstrated) is to say that there are "Christians" and there are TRUE Christians.

According to this twisted logic, when some Christians do something shitty, it's because they are not the holiest bunch. But when Muslims do something shitty, the majority of them are accomplices one way or another.

INQ

11

Aussie news today Are most Muslim crazed fanatics or what?

by Witness 007 in

in bali yesterday three terrorist who bombed two night clubs killing and injuring many hundreds of aussies were executed by firing squad.

huge crowds of angry people showed up to support these martyrs.

in bali most people treat them like rock stars....the same with 9/11 middle eastern people dancing in the streets.

Inquisitor

Here are some questions for ya:

Do the Muslims who participate in such retributive jubilation do so as Muslims per se or as Muslims who are also victims of American political and economic hegemony?

Christians vs Muslims? I don't like making such seemingly neat comparisons between two groups that are different not only in their religious upbringing but also in socio-economic status, cultural environment etc. Here's an example:

*Why do the majority of Bible-belt Christians derive more pleasure than Indonesian Muslims in denying same-sex couples the right to marry?*

Can you see what erroneous assumptions I make to ask such a question? Plenty of homophob..I mean conservative Christians who vocally express their "personal opinion" here on JWD would be glad to jump in to wag their fingers at my sample question. They wouldn't be so eager to correct any perceived callousness on the part of Muslims though.

Btw, what gave you the impression that the Balinese treat the Bali bombers "like rock stars", Witness007? The impression I have is that most Balinese people are ANGRY with the bombers (who were from Muslim Java, not Hindu Bali). The funerals for these bombers were held in Java, not Bali.

Liberal Muslims exist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaringan_Islam_Liberal) I am not condoning the actions of stupid Muslims when I mention the liberals. I do not show I love stupid homophobic Christians when I mention that liberal, inclusivist Christians exist.

INQ

7

Has anyone seen "Population 436" ?

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

wow - the striking similarities to cults stood the hair on my neck.

the pictures in the 'prophecy book' looked amazingly watchtoweresque also, and lead the lead character to immediately investigate 'biblical numerology'.

i had seen it before - but there must be less and less fog in my mind nowadays - since i didn't see any of the same similarities i saw when i watched it last night.

Inquisitor

Is this a horror movie? I thought I remember seeing the trailer of something with a similar name

INQ

13

Higher Education - do you know any witnesses who are College Lecturers?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

it has become increasingly apparent that the society is currently taking a hard line on university/college education for the young.

however, this policy must put some witnesses in an awkward position.

i know of an elder who is a prominent university professor, in fact he is a world authority in his field of work, which is a medical area that seeks to better the lot of humankind in general.

Inquisitor

I know of a lecturer, but I don't know how the recent directives are affecting him. I doubt it bothers him too much. He's not top of his field. Neither is his university. Lectures in accounting. His students (friends of mine) do not think very highly of him.

Do you really think it would be an issue, eyeslice? I would've thought that they would treat these lecturers the same as any other JDub doctor, lawyers etc. Lecturers don't have to encourage Witnesses to go to college any more than lawyers encourage Witnesses to sue.

INQ

9

China confiscates 300 bibles from christian group

by hubert in

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080817/ap_on_re_as/china_bibles_confiscated.

could this be jehovah's witnesses?

just saw this on yahoo home page.. hubert.

Inquisitor

no worries, hubert. happens to the best of us.

6

And this was how it was a little ok to go to college...

by Inquisitor in

i don't know how the situation sits with the congregations these days in light of certain overt anti-education directives.. see seeker4's thread fallout from gb anti-college.... but where i grew up as a witness... there was an unwritten loophole (among the r&f) that made going to university "palatable" to the witnesses.. if you were going to uni to be trained it certain professions it was deemed worth the sacrifice made.

it was believed that:.

lawyers could defend the wts from the menace of government oppression, aiding in the release of incarcerated bros and sis.. lawyers would have sharp oratory skills.

Inquisitor

I don't know how the situation sits with the congregations these days in light of certain overt anti-education directives.

See Seeker4's thread Fallout from GB anti-College...

But where I grew up as a Witness... there was an unwritten loophole (among the R&F) that made going to university "palatable" to the Witnesses.

If you were going to uni to be trained it certain professions it was deemed worth the sacrifice made. It was believed that:

LAWYERS could defend the WTS from the menace of government oppression, aiding in the release of incarcerated bros and sis.

LAWYERS would have sharp oratory skills. If you're a bro. this was desirable as you ~~reach out~~ facilitate your hierarchical promotion by the BOE. If you lack a penis, boohoo, avoid law school.

DOCTORS (GPs) and DENTISTS could offer free or affordable medical consultations to Bethel members or congregational members. But this career is not as easily defensible. The more annoying members of the congregation would be quick to point out that in the New World there would be no need for "physicians".

ARCHITECTS/ENGINEERS are much desirable. Indispensable for quick-build Kingdom Halls and Paradisaic dwellings.

This is a good example of JDub rationalising. No Witnesses are not necessarily stupid at all. Just trapped by their own fears and the WTS' grip. They do think, but within certain confines... We sometimes lose sight of this fact.

INQ

108

Gay Marriage - The War for Equality

by Inquisitor in

i've just read lola28's thread "for those against gay marriage".

i thought i should present a clear message on what i think the gay marriage issue is all about.

the trouble with most discussions on this issue is that it gets clouded by a plethora of side-issues, non-issues, cave-men chest-thumping and medieval puritanism.

Inquisitor

I am opposed to "gay" marriage and yet, curiously, I'm not homophobic.

Indeed. You just prefer that homosexuals quit being so vocal about their rights cause it's infringing on the interests of "your" society. How curious...

Some homosexuals...are so self-absorbed that they can't possibly see the effects of their desired course of action in a greater context; in this case, societal survivablity.

I still don't see the connection between gay-straight equality and "societal survivability". What's to survive? Has the global population dropped by a few billion last night? Did charity organizations run out of children to adopt? Or are we doing the sermon from a moral values pulpit? In what way does social equality jeopardize survival of humankind?

Nobody mentioned quality/quantity of sex on this thread as far as I'm aware. Don't deviate. We're talking about equality.

When you assert that society's "needs" trump the marriage rights of homosexuals, you need to demonstrate 2 things:

(1) How is there a conflict between the needs of society (not just Christian, not just heteros) and those of gays? In fact what IS SOCIETY to you? Do you realize that by speaking of gays as if they were outside of society, outside of the interests of society, you show you do not see them as belonging to it? Would you like to revisit your self-examination on homophobia?

(2) How is it that calling gays a noisy, selfish bunch and telling them to conform to the heterosexual preference of society does not contradict the principles of liberal democracy? Had you been arguing for gay interests, Shazard would be ringing the village bell by now, shouting "The communists are here!!". Are you a Commie? Socialist?You better f*cking not be in this maginificent capital-driven world today.

Sure, every pressure group must justify why they want a certain right recognized by society. And your point is? The vocal gays haven't made it clear to you? You still don't know why gays want gay marriage recognized? Do you see the word "Equality" at the start of this thread?

Or did you stop paying attention because in your mind "it's the highly vocal gay agenda again!"? Would you like to revisit your self-examination on homophobia?

Allow society to determine what is best for society (it has far greater minds than ours) so that everyone can enjoy the rights and privileges of being human.

And I thought rational thought and open discourse is meant to accomplish that. Not sucking up to the status quo. By your logic, if a village is populated with idiots in the majority, we should just go by what idiots say. Is it mob rule that knows what's best for us?

INQ

108

Gay Marriage - The War for Equality

by Inquisitor in

i've just read lola28's thread "for those against gay marriage".

i thought i should present a clear message on what i think the gay marriage issue is all about.

the trouble with most discussions on this issue is that it gets clouded by a plethora of side-issues, non-issues, cave-men chest-thumping and medieval puritanism.

Inquisitor

Shaz,

I must also get it off my chest that it is utter nonsense to assert that gays are unable to start a family.

Haven't you heard of adoption? IVF? The same reproductive technologies that biologically infertile couples attempt? Haven't you met lesbian mums and gay dads?

It is interesting to observe this technique of alienating gays. Creation of "the other". Tell all they're "unbreedable" and hence elevate the marriage institution to a hetero only priviledge.

Only for breeders thank you, the rest needn't apply (unless you're straight but infertile or straight and career-driven, in which case we understand!!).

And you know what the irony is? Who are the people who oppose gay people accessing such reproductive technologies and adoptive options? Yes, shockingly convenient really. Make marriage only for breeders cos it's for "building society". Then make it impossible to have families through alternative means for homos who can't breed. No gay marriage.

Equality?! But you dont even f*ck like we do.

INQ

108

Gay Marriage - The War for Equality

by Inquisitor in

i've just read lola28's thread "for those against gay marriage".

i thought i should present a clear message on what i think the gay marriage issue is all about.

the trouble with most discussions on this issue is that it gets clouded by a plethora of side-issues, non-issues, cave-men chest-thumping and medieval puritanism.

Inquisitor

Gay people who get married should not be granted extra rights at all. But then, nor should straight people. Every individual citizen should have the same rights regardless of whether they are in a romantic relationship or the exact nature of that relationship.

FunkyDerek,

I totally agree. In terms of equality, if the legal and financial priviledges (I wouldn't label them all as rights) that come with marriage are denied to gay people, then they should also be denied to straight people. That is what equality means. But you and I KNOW full well that while the former describes the prevailing situation (except for few places where gay marriage is legally possible) the latter will NEVER EVER be allowed to happen.

Hell hath no fury to match the day that heteros lose their legal and financial advantages from marriage to prove a point of equality with the gays.

And I think that is essentially my assertion in this thread:

The opposition to gay marriage has nothing to do with the blur of eloquent arguments on definition, values etc. It is a question of whether people see gays as their human equals or not. And the shameful answer is NO. That is why they oppose gay marriage. It has nothing to do with statecraft etc etc, It has more to do with homophobia.

So while I agree with you in principle, I do not hope to see what you've proposed actually come to fruition.

Worst case scenario is a highly religious right-wing backlash. One magnitude behind that is where people-against-gay-marriage are delighted that your proposed trimming of marriage privileges has fooled the gays into waiting while they themselves cling on to their status quo. Perpetuating the injustice.

INQ

108

Gay Marriage - The War for Equality

by Inquisitor in

i've just read lola28's thread "for those against gay marriage".

i thought i should present a clear message on what i think the gay marriage issue is all about.

the trouble with most discussions on this issue is that it gets clouded by a plethora of side-issues, non-issues, cave-men chest-thumping and medieval puritanism.

Inquisitor

Ah... here we go again..we've become lost in a clutter of side issues it would seem.

Well Iet's return to the question of equality.

SHAZ,

It is unjustly to apply similar rules for different people.That is communism, and how unjust it is history has shown. That is what you get when you overstate the value of "Equality"!

Really? So you do not believe that there is such a thing as universal values to be upheld by all civilized nations then? Why should countries bother to sign any Human Rights Declaration? Or is the UN a communist vehicle in disguise? Oh shit... you mean the act of imposing democracy by "necessary" military force on nations would ALSO be a communist act? And I thought it was a neo-con agenda. How sinister! You wouldn't be trying to scare ol INQy, would you?

So at what point did a gay marriage pressure group succeed in turning China and Russia militantly communist? I didn't realize it was that easy to revolutionize society.

It seems that both sides of the debate agree that marriage is a way of stabilising a relationship, of acquiring societal acceptance of that relationship, paving the way for kids and family. So why would you want to deprive that of gay people? You prefer to see them as sexually promiscuous, irresponsible party-goers who totally deserve media mention whenever the HIV infection rates go up?

Is it gay marriage that you oppose? Or homosexuality that you despise?

Is it daunting to comprehend that gay people might want the things some straight people enjoy? A stable relationship, family ties, children, careers, neighbours who don't cringe when they see the gay couple near kids?

Is it so mind-blowing that gay people just might be like you, only of a different sexual inclination? Have you ever made acquaintance with gays? Do you actually know what it is like to be them?

INQ