Posts by Super

5

WTS views on theatre and film

by Super_Becka in

ok, this is something that i've been wondering about for a while now, so i figured i'd ask my favourite jw forum about it.

of course, it wouldn't surprise me if nobody has even considered this, but it's worth a shot to ask.. does the wts have any doctrine against theatre and film, other than the generic "don't watch anything with an r-rating"??.

my reason for asking this is as follows:.

Super_Becka

To avoid future confusion, I should probably remind everyone that I'm not a JW, I never have been and I never will be. And I thank God every day for that.

Acting can be used to bring honour to God?? What, and we don't honour God during, say, Christmas and Easter?? Gee, I've really been misunderstanding all of the Christian worship I partake in during those seasons. I guess that all of the prayers we recite to the glory of God during Christmas can't possibly be used to bring honour to God, then, or else it wouldn't have been banned by the WTS.

Let's face it, acting has more strongly and purely pagan origins than Christmas, but they didn't see fit to ban that, they use acting in their own preaching. If they can ban Christmas and other "pagan" celebrations, then they should have banned acting and all of its derivatives. Acting is not entertainment, it is not a Christian teaching tool, it is a PAGAN RITUAL USED TO WORSHIP ANCIENT GODS. Sure, that's not what acting is used for today, it's lost all pagan overtones, but then again, so has Christmas.

See my point??

-Becka :)

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

Super_Becka

I'm with Loosie on this one - lots of things we do today isn't in the Bible, so does that mean that we can't do them??

Hmm, no TV, no telephones, no computers, no cars, no sneakers, no ski jackets, no modern conveniences at all. I don't know about you, but where I'm from, if I had to live in a small, uninsulated home and wear long tunics, no pants and no shoes, I'd be dead from hypothermia in about two minutes flat. Hey, it's Canada, it gets damn cold here in the winter!!

Just because it's not in the Bible doesn't make it inherently evil. If birthdays are evil because they weren't practiced in the Bible, then we're all going to Hell for wearing glasses and typing on our computers.

But oops, JWs don't believe in Hell, so I guess we're just doomed to cease to exist. Damn.

-Becka :)

5

WTS views on theatre and film

by Super_Becka in

ok, this is something that i've been wondering about for a while now, so i figured i'd ask my favourite jw forum about it.

of course, it wouldn't surprise me if nobody has even considered this, but it's worth a shot to ask.. does the wts have any doctrine against theatre and film, other than the generic "don't watch anything with an r-rating"??.

my reason for asking this is as follows:.

Super_Becka

OK, this is something that I've been wondering about for a while now, so I figured I'd ask my favourite JW forum about it. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if nobody has even considered this, but it's worth a shot to ask.

Does the WTS have any doctrine against theatre and film, other than the generic "don't watch anything with an R-rating"??

My reason for asking this is as follows:

The basis for movies, television and theatre is acting, right?? You can't have any of these things without actors (with the exception of things like newscasts, but that's not what we're talking about). You can't have a movie without actors to portray the characters, you can't have a play without players to portray the characters, am I right?? Sure, you can write fiction, but to actually see it visually, it has to be presented by actors, people pretending to be the characters and acting out the situations.

Now that we've agreed on that, the core of this question is the fact that, though many people probably wouldn't know this unless they'd studied the history of Greek theatre and its origins, acting began as a form of worship for pre-Christian gods in Ancient Greece. Followers of Ancient Greek gods would dress in costumes and perform ritualistic dances and skits in which they pretended to be supernatural followers of the gods (satyrs) or even the gods themselves, most notably Dionysus, the Greek god of wine. From this form of worship came the earliest plays, written in honour of the gods by poets like Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides to be performed at theatre festivals like the great City Dionysia in Athens. This festival was a week-long festival celebrated to honour Dionysus with dance, theatre (tragedies only at first, then comedies as well later on) and feasting, and it was a very important part of Greek life. Every inhabitant of the city was required to attend, and in the countryside, there were the Rural Dionysias, which served the same purpose and were mandatory for rural citizens.

So it is very fair and accurate to say that acting, and indeed the works that they perform, be it screenplays, teleplays or theatrical plays, are all directly descended from pagan worship of ancient gods, most notably the god of wine (who encouraged drunkenness among his followers) and were intended only for the worship of ancient gods. Acting and all of its derivatives was not intended for innocent entertainment, it was intended for the worship of pre-Christian gods only.

Following WTS reasoning on things like Christmas and other Christian celebrations that have no specific roots in the Bible and apparently have pagan origins, theatre, acting, television and films, along with any and all associated events, should be unequivocably forbidden for JWs, right?? Maybe that sounds ludicrous because acting et al. has lost all pagan overtones and is nothing more than entertainment now, but hey, Christmas has no pagan overtones now and they've banned that, so why not ban all things theatrical as well??

Does the WTS have anything to say about this subject area or has it been overlooked?? I'm sure that the WTS isn't exactly filled with academics and scholars who have studied Ancient Greece and its traditions and customs, so it wouldn't surprise me if this has never come up in Brooklyn, but this is a case of something that can't be argued - there is proof that theatre and acting originated as pagan worship practices, it can't be debated, unlike Christmas, which didn't begin as a means of worshipping pagan gods. If they can ban Christmas for being seemingly pagan 1000 years ago, then surely they can ban something that has been proven to be 110% pagan 2500 years ago!!

What do you think?? Any comments?? What's the deal with this in the WTS?? Hey, call me overly curious, but inquiring minds need to know!!

-Becka :)

62

I don't know if this is the right place for but please someone help me out.

by rohrix in

first and foremost let me describe my situation.

i am a senior in high school.

i've had a very rough past and alot of people have wronged me in many ways.

Super_Becka

Hey, glad I could make your day, MJ. I might be madly in love at the moment, but I'm not an idiot and I'm certainly not blind. My JW boyfriend finds is offensive that I'm researching his religion, but too bad, I have to know what I'm getting myself into before I make any further commitments. He can sulk all he wants, he can't stop me from uncovering the truth about "the Truth".

Rohrix, if you're looking for my thread about dating a JW, here's the link for it:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/20/101985/1.ashx

There's lots of great advice there from the concerned members of JWD, it'll certainly give you something to think about and research for yourself. Don't do anything rash until you get some facts on this organization!!

And keep in touch!!

-Becka :)

PS: MJ, I love that Bible verse in your bio - if only the JWs would follow that one, we wouldn't be in this trouble!!

"You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men." 1 Cor 7:23

62

I don't know if this is the right place for but please someone help me out.

by rohrix in

first and foremost let me describe my situation.

i am a senior in high school.

i've had a very rough past and alot of people have wronged me in many ways.

Super_Becka

Please, do yourself a favour and just don't get involved. I might not be all that experienced in this particular area and I'm certainly no expert in the strange world of the WTS, but I do know that when you get involved with a Jehovah's Witness, you're only setting yourself up for heartbreak.

I'm involved with a very sweet JW man right now, and it's breaking my heart every single day. I love him very much, but the WTS is making my life and my romance very trying. I'm still not sure if this is even worth it.

If you want some accounts of first-hand experience with dating a JW, feel free to PM me. I'm no expert, but I can certainly share my story with you. And by all means, stick around this forum, there's lots of people here willing to listen and help.

-Becka :)

42

What are the first things you notice when you enter a JW home?

by JH in

jw
friends

a) you'll find no ash trays.

b) no lottery tickets laying on the counter.

c) a jw calendar in sight for everyone to see.

Super_Becka

Hmm, I spent a couple of days at my JW boyfriend's parents' home this past summer, and try as I might to notice anything out of the ordinary about their home, I saw nothing but a regular house, nothing out of the ordinary at all.

Big-screen projection TV (we're talking probably around 51-inches, HUGE television!!), satellite receiver and a million channels, home theatre system, huge DVD collection (and we're not talking about all family-friendly stuff, either, lots of action movies and the like), several video game consoles (Nintendo, Playstation), a couple of computers, expensive furniture (leather couches!!), hardwood flooring, three bedrooms but FOUR bathrooms, huge, well-equiped kitchen, sun room, big patio out back, hot tub, fancy garden, everything that screams "WEALTHY WORLDLY FAMILY!!".

I was really expecting something more modest and religious, but I didn't see even a single copy of a Watchtower or Awake! magazine. Of course, it's also true that this family is "luke-warm in the Truth " and tend to pick and choose which parts of the WTS doctrine they like to follow and which parts they like to ignore. Like, they ignore the whole "no sex before marriage" and "no self-defence classes" orders, but they're staunchly opposed to celebrating any and all holidays.

That was about the only thing that would've cued me to the fact that this family wasn't mainstream Christian if I hadn't already known - I saw lots of family pictures, in albums and frames around the house, but there were, obviously, no pictures from holidays or birthday parties or anything like that, just pictures from when the family was building their last few houses or when my boyfriend's sister, who lives far away from the rest of the family, comes to visit. No special occasions, no nothing, and that would be the only thing that I found odd about the household. There wasn't even any awkward conversation, just no holiday/birthday photos. Heh, my boyfriend's mother even asked me about my birthday and nobody flinched when I mentioned Christmas.

Not at all what I expected from a JW family home.

-Becka :)

14

So why do I feel like a hypocrite??

by Super_Becka in

ok, so i've been doing a lot of thinking about my relationship with my jw boyfriend, and while i haven't made any final decisions regarding what i'm going to do just yet, i can't help but feel like a hypocrite, and i feel terrible about it.. jws are so intolerant, they can't accept others who are different than they are, they try to force their beliefs and rules on others, they judge others based on wts standards and such, so how does it make me any different to judge him on his beliefs??

i never judge people based on their belief systems or lifestyles unless it hurts someone else - i grew up being taught that everyone is different, that doesn't make them bad and that we shouldn't judge others because they're different, my mother's favourite saying is "to each his own" and i follow that myself - so why am i considering breaking up with my boyfriend because his beliefs are different from mine??

i'm trying to decide whether or not to break up with him - it's not an easy decision, he's a great person and he treats me very well - but i can't help but feel like i'm no better than an intolerant jw, judging him based on his religion.

Super_Becka

Hmm, a thought on prejudice and discrimination:

" This is the essence of discrimination: formulating opinions about others not based on their individual merits, but rather on their membership in a group with assumed characteristics."

That's from "Philadelphia", the 1993 movie with Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington (great movie, by the way, it's about discrimination and AIDS). I know that the general consensus here is that I'm supposed to look at this situation that I'm in and decide whether or not I'm compatible with my boyfriend, not whether or not his belief system is "good enough" for me, but this quote sums up what I'm feeling right now. I feel like I'm judging him on his association with the WTS, tenuous though it might be, and not his personal merits.

As a person, WTS notwithstanding, my boyfriend is exactly what I'm looking for in a man, he treats me like a queen, he tells me how he feels about me every single day, he's caring and honest and patient and funny and sweet and sensitive and every other great quality that I want in a man. He is, dare I say it, "practically perfect in every way", and I love him very much.

It's not his personal merits that I'm judging him on, it's his association with the WTS and the beliefs and behaviours that the Society has ingrained in him all of his life that I'm judging him on, and that makes me feel very guilty. I know what I'm probably going to end up doing, but I cringe when I think about how I'm going to do it. What do I say?? "Sorry, I can't be with you because I don't like the belief system that you stubbornly cling to"??

That's why I feel like a hypocrite - my boyfriend's beliefs tell him that other faiths aren't good enough and that only JWs are "God's people", but I'm looking at him and thinking something along the lines of, "Wow, what a whack-job, he's not good enough for me", just because of his beliefs and the behaviours that they entail.

But of course, I can't jump to any final decisions just yet - I know nothing good will come out of it and it'll just delay the inevitable, but my boyfriend has agreed to talk about our differences and try to compromise, and I can't break it off until I give him the chance to talk to me about it. It's just trying to see his side objective and without the bias that I've developed against the WTS in my research that's going to be the hard part.

It's just good to be able to come here and get some other opinions on my situation and feelings, it's a big help. Thanks everyone!! Keep it coming!!

-Becka :)

12

Update on my son....

by orbison11 in

jw
friends

well, in one hour i am having coffee with my son i havent seen in 9 years,,,i am terrified.

he did say that it was very important for him to meet with me,,he is 25 now,,,,he is one of four children i have not seen for a very long time, due to leaving my x of 25 yrs and the cult,,,,so off i go,,and i will update as soon as i get back,,with me luck.

wendy

Super_Becka

Good luck!! I hope everything works out well with your and your son.

-Becka :)

21

I have never had such delicious chocolate!

by Soledad in

i can't believe how yummy these chocolates are!!

what is it about english chocolate that tastes soooooooo good?

must be the mad cows!!

Super_Becka

Ooo ooo, over here!! *raises hand* Yup, I'm definitely a chocoholic, and a diehard one at that!! My favourite kind of chocolate is dark chocolate, but I'm quite fond of Cadbury's Dairy Milk bars, and I love milk and dark chocolate Terry's Chocolate Oranges. :D But really, I'm not that picky, any milk or dark chocolate will do!!

-Becka :)

58

Please help me, I need advice on dating a JW!!

by Super_Becka in

ok, i'm new here, so please be gentle.

maybe the advice i need is somewhere else in this forum, but i really don't want to have to search for it, i really need some advice now and i don't have the time to sift through all of the other entries here.

so please bear with me and share any and all advice you have, even if you think it's not what i want to hear.

Super_Becka

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to give all of you a little update on my situation. Not much as changed, but I've finally managed bring up the topic of my holiday celebrations with my boyfriend, even if it was in an email rather than verbally. I told him how I felt about his decided hatred for my holidays and that I didn't understand where this hatred comes from (I know his reasoning behind not celebrating Christmas, I just don't know why he, as a person, hates it so much), and I got a response back from him today

He hates (heh, he says he doesn't "hate" it, because "hate" is a very strong word, but I know he hates it) Christmas because of his faith, because of the commercial aspect of it and the fact that it's everywhere and he thinks that it's forced on him. Hey, a lot of people don't like how commercial Christmas is now, and sure, Christmas is everywhere, but these things are also part of Western culture, and if he lived in India, Hinduism would be everywhere and he'd be offended by how that is forced on him. It's mainly his faith that makes him hate this season, which seems to strange to me, that a faith would incite hatred in its followers. Maybe it's just that my faith is so tolerant.

The worst part is that he flat out refuses to see my viewpoints on the subject. He knows how much it hurts me that he's behaving like this and he says that he doesn't want to hurt me, but he's not willing to be a little more tolerant and open-minded, either. I've never tried to force him to celebrate with me, I've never tried to force my beliefs on him or to change him, but he's acting like I am just because I want to share my special with him. And not only that, but he's making me feel guilty about it, though with all of the warnings I've gotten here, I'm really not surprised.

"I'm sorry if it makes you sad. I only want you to by happy, but me and christmas just don't mix. I can only be honest. I hope you still love me. You're the most important thing in my life. If I lost you over some silly holiday it would just break me."

That's what he wrote to me, among other things. He knows how much I love him and that I'd rather die than break his heart, so he tells me how hard it would be for him if I ended our relationship over this. But in the same sentence, he thinks that it's appropriate to call Christmas, something that he knows means so much to me, "some silly holiday". I thought he was a sweet, sensitive person, but I guess he's not as he appeared. I feel like he's putting a guilt-trip on me for my holidays, trying to make me choose him or my holidays, and it's a very difficult decision for me and one that he can never win, because I'll never give up my holidays for him.

I'll be emailing him back soon and I'll be sure to bring up the future - sure, we're fine now because we're far apart and we don't live together, but what happens if we stay together and start living with each other?? I'm sure he hasn't thought of this, or if he has, he's probably sure that I'll just conform and give up everything that I celebrate just for him, but if that's what he thinks, he's sadly mistaken. Like I said before, I won't be giving up my celebrations for anyone or anything, and if I have children someday, then I won't be depriving them of the things that have made me so happy for so long and bring back so many happy memories for me. I will never change my stance on these things, no matter what.

Of course, none of this makes this situation any less heart-breaking for me, it's killing me and he just doesn't care. He cares that I'm hurting, but he doesn't care about why I'm hurting and he's not going to do anything about it, so as far as I'm concerned, then he doesn't care. I've been going to bed lately with a box of Kleenex because my heart is broken and I don't know what to do. Well, I know what I should do, I know what I need to do, it's just so hard to bring myself to do it.

I'm so glad all of you are here to help me through this mess, it's so good to have people who understand to be there for me and offer up suggestions and advice for me. Thank you so much for being there for me while I figure this out, I really appreciate all of your support. Please keep your advice coming!!

-Becka :)

Super_Becka

Posts by Super_Becka