oldiesman

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Posts by oldiesman

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  18

  What does "born again" mean?

  by Country Girl in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  to most of the people on here, the term "born again" reminds them of fanatical christians who try to impose their beliefs on all other people, have an agenda (which is sometimes co-mixed with politics), and want to convert the rest of the world.

  to me, born again is of a different nature.

  it's different from my understanding of it as a jehovah's witness, and it's different from my understanding of it as a baptist.

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  oldiesman

  21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven,
  
  but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

  Acadian, you write many thought-provoking words, but I still believe that we are saved by grace, not by works.

  Grace means divine favor. It is a gift that you can't screw up.

  Even so, when one "does the will of the Father" concerning salvation, which is Romans 10:9, one is saved. "thou shalt be saved."

  I used to be Roman Catholic, and as one, never was sure about salvation... it was always too vague and always determined by good works. And then, maybe, I might be saved.

  Essentially what they are saying is: "You have a chance at salvation, as long as you do what we tell you to do".

  I think that is baloney, personally.

  And don't forget to keep on throwing money in the basket...

  And so I believe that when we are born again, we are children of God. Period.

  We are in Gods family, and members of the body of Christ.

  This is a promise of God, and God doesn't welch on His promises.
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  18

  What does "born again" mean?

  by Country Girl in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  to most of the people on here, the term "born again" reminds them of fanatical christians who try to impose their beliefs on all other people, have an agenda (which is sometimes co-mixed with politics), and want to convert the rest of the world.

  to me, born again is of a different nature.

  it's different from my understanding of it as a jehovah's witness, and it's different from my understanding of it as a baptist.

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  2. 
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  oldiesman

  To me, being born again is very simple. Born again simply means "born from above". You are a son of God.

  Being a son of God is a spiritual birth. When you were first born, you were born of your natural parents. When you are born "again", you are born of God. You are a spiritual creation.

  How does one become born again? Confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, and thou shalt be saved (Romans 10:9).

  Then you are saved, born again, converted. You are a new creation in Christ, the new, spiritual man.

  God also has promised eternal life.
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  94

  What is a Born Again Christian??

  by TopHat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

  do they believe in "hellfire"

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  oldiesman

  LittleToe,

  It would be an impossible task for me to prove that all Christians spoke in tongues back then, and I really do not wish to get into a discussion on the availability of speaking in tongues, on this thread.

  I would say that all Christians had/have the ability to speak in tongues.

  I believe this because I believe all Christians are given the gift of holy spirit, when they are born again.

  Please forgive my crude example, but I look at it like a battery, in a vehicle. The battery is there, it is resident power. But in order for the power to be made manifest, the individual has to put the key in the ignition, step on the petal, and drive the vehicle. I liken speaking in tongues to that. It is a manifestation of the inward presence of the holy spirit.

  But what I wanted to stress in my prior post was, that there is no requirement to speak in tongues in order to be born again or saved.

  The holy spirit is there to those who believe Romans 10:9, whether or not one speaks in tongues.
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  94

  What is a Born Again Christian??

  by TopHat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

  do they believe in "hellfire"

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  2. 
  3. 
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  oldiesman

  All christians are born again when they beleive. The problem with some penticostals is that to them born again is speaking is toungs to be saved . Some penticostals have hijacked the born again doctrine in this way.

  This is an important distinction to make. If you read Acts 19: 1-6, folks got saved under the ministry of Apollos, however they knew nothing about speaking in tongues. Then Paul came in, and taught them about speaking in tongues, and they spoke in tongues. They were already saved, however the speaking in tongues was evidence, proof, that they received Christ when they first believed (under Apollos). They could have spoken in tongues right then when they got born again, but obviously Apollos didn't know anything about it so he couldn't impart that knowledge.
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  94

  What is a Born Again Christian??

  by TopHat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

  do they believe in "hellfire"

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  oldiesman

  So basicly the "Born Again" doctrine is saying all Christians are saved from the first century until now?

  Yes that is correct.
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  94

  What is a Born Again Christian??

  by TopHat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

  do they believe in "hellfire"

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldiesman

  In Romans 10:9 I believe Paul here is speaking to the Jews to come to an understanding that they have a new way in which to come to God and to confess that Jesus the is Massiah.

  TopHat, I believe that as well. And I believe it is addressed to the Gentiles, as well. According to "born again" doctrine, all "saints" are born again. The whole book of Romans is addressed to the church of God in Rome, all the saints in Rome. And in Romans 10 vs 12, 13, it basically says that there is no difference between Jew or Gentile as pertaining to belief in Jesus, and salvation. Also bear in mind that most of Paul's ministry was to the Gentiles, as we see in the Book of Acts and the Church Epistles.
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  94

  What is a Born Again Christian??

  by TopHat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

  do they believe in "hellfire"

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldiesman

  TopHat,

  Regarding your question about believing in Hellfire, are you referring to the Lake of Fire and Brimstone from the Book of Revelation?

  I grew up Roman Catholic, and of course we believed that there is eternal torture in "hell".

  Then much later I came to the belief that anything placed in the Lake of Fire would burn up, be annihilated.

  So now I believe the latter.

  What do you think about folks getting born again, via Romans 10:9?
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  94

  What is a Born Again Christian??

  by TopHat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

  do they believe in "hellfire"

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  oldiesman

  He's been involved with JW now for about a year and a half.

  He goes door-to door alot, so perhaps he was baptised as well.
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  94

  What is a Born Again Christian??

  by TopHat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

  do they believe in "hellfire"

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldiesman

  I don't know if he's been baptised yet.

  This is a true story I am about to tell you:

  He got involved with JW after he divorced my sister. He found a girlfriend who was a Jehovah Witness and he made it his own. This was in Costa Rica.

  He was taken to the cleaners by her. He went down to Costa Rica, married her, and bought a whole bunch of land and put it in her name. Treated her like a queen.

  Some months later, the woman tried to have him killed! Told him to go on an errand in the desert, prearranged to have his car break down, and have some bandits kill him.

  By God's grace, he didn't get killed, but he was robbed and beaten.

  After that, the woman was "marked and avoided" by the Jehovah Witnesses.

  Or do they use the term "shunned"? Same thing.
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  94

  What is a Born Again Christian??

  by TopHat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

  do they believe in "hellfire"

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oldiesman

  Hello LittleToe

  Some folks refer to "The Way International" as a cult, yes.

  The teaching from "The Way" is that you cannot "feel" spirit, because it is beyond the five senses (hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, touching), unless spirit is manifested in the five senses realm.

  Regarding the Jehovah Witness belief on salvation: I have a brother-in-law who recently joined them after having been involved in "The Way" for some time. He previously believed, as I do, that folks are saved by grace, not by works.

  But now he believes folks are saved by works. And now from what you say, salvation is only through what the Jehovah Witnesses' believe are the correct works ... *sigh*