Posts by oldiesman

94

What is a Born Again Christian??

by TopHat in

no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

do they believe in "hellfire"

oldiesman

LittleToe,

It would be an impossible task for me to prove that all Christians spoke in tongues back then, and I really do not wish to get into a discussion on the availability of speaking in tongues, on this thread.

I would say that all Christians had/have the ability to speak in tongues.

I believe this because I believe all Christians are given the gift of holy spirit, when they are born again.

Please forgive my crude example, but I look at it like a battery, in a vehicle. The battery is there, it is resident power. But in order for the power to be made manifest, the individual has to put the key in the ignition, step on the petal, and drive the vehicle. I liken speaking in tongues to that. It is a manifestation of the inward presence of the holy spirit.

But what I wanted to stress in my prior post was, that there is no requirement to speak in tongues in order to be born again or saved.

The holy spirit is there to those who believe Romans 10:9, whether or not one speaks in tongues.

94

What is a Born Again Christian??

by TopHat in

no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

do they believe in "hellfire"

oldiesman

All christians are born again when they beleive. The problem with some penticostals is that to them born again is speaking is toungs to be saved . Some penticostals have hijacked the born again doctrine in this way.

This is an important distinction to make. If you read Acts 19: 1-6, folks got saved under the ministry of Apollos, however they knew nothing about speaking in tongues. Then Paul came in, and taught them about speaking in tongues, and they spoke in tongues. They were already saved, however the speaking in tongues was evidence, proof, that they received Christ when they first believed (under Apollos). They could have spoken in tongues right then when they got born again, but obviously Apollos didn't know anything about it so he couldn't impart that knowledge.

94

What is a Born Again Christian??

by TopHat in

no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

do they believe in "hellfire"

oldiesman

So basicly the "Born Again" doctrine is saying all Christians are saved from the first century until now?

Yes that is correct.

94

What is a Born Again Christian??

by TopHat in

no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

do they believe in "hellfire"

oldiesman

In Romans 10:9 I believe Paul here is speaking to the Jews to come to an understanding that they have a new way in which to come to God and to confess that Jesus the is Massiah.

TopHat, I believe that as well. And I believe it is addressed to the Gentiles, as well. According to "born again" doctrine, all "saints" are born again. The whole book of Romans is addressed to the church of God in Rome, all the saints in Rome. And in Romans 10 vs 12, 13, it basically says that there is no difference between Jew or Gentile as pertaining to belief in Jesus, and salvation. Also bear in mind that most of Paul's ministry was to the Gentiles, as we see in the Book of Acts and the Church Epistles.

94

What is a Born Again Christian??

by TopHat in

no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

do they believe in "hellfire"

oldiesman

TopHat,

Regarding your question about believing in Hellfire, are you referring to the Lake of Fire and Brimstone from the Book of Revelation?

I grew up Roman Catholic, and of course we believed that there is eternal torture in "hell".

Then much later I came to the belief that anything placed in the Lake of Fire would burn up, be annihilated.

So now I believe the latter.

What do you think about folks getting born again, via Romans 10:9?

94

What is a Born Again Christian??

by TopHat in

no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

do they believe in "hellfire"

oldiesman

He's been involved with JW now for about a year and a half.

He goes door-to door alot, so perhaps he was baptised as well.

94

What is a Born Again Christian??

by TopHat in

no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

do they believe in "hellfire"

oldiesman

I don't know if he's been baptised yet.

This is a true story I am about to tell you:

He got involved with JW after he divorced my sister. He found a girlfriend who was a Jehovah Witness and he made it his own. This was in Costa Rica.

He was taken to the cleaners by her. He went down to Costa Rica, married her, and bought a whole bunch of land and put it in her name. Treated her like a queen.

Some months later, the woman tried to have him killed! Told him to go on an errand in the desert, prearranged to have his car break down, and have some bandits kill him.

By God's grace, he didn't get killed, but he was robbed and beaten.

After that, the woman was "marked and avoided" by the Jehovah Witnesses.

Or do they use the term "shunned"? Same thing.

94

What is a Born Again Christian??

by TopHat in

no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

do they believe in "hellfire"

oldiesman

Hello LittleToe

Some folks refer to "The Way International" as a cult, yes.

The teaching from "The Way" is that you cannot "feel" spirit, because it is beyond the five senses (hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, touching), unless spirit is manifested in the five senses realm.

Regarding the Jehovah Witness belief on salvation: I have a brother-in-law who recently joined them after having been involved in "The Way" for some time. He previously believed, as I do, that folks are saved by grace, not by works.

But now he believes folks are saved by works. And now from what you say, salvation is only through what the Jehovah Witnesses' believe are the correct works ... *sigh*

94

What is a Born Again Christian??

by TopHat in

no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

do they believe in "hellfire"

oldiesman

Could someone share on the requirement(s) for salvation according to Jehovah's Witnesses?

94

What is a Born Again Christian??

by TopHat in

no, i am not a born again....just wanted to get some idea of what their belief is as i have always heard of them.

do they believe in "hellfire"

oldiesman

Hello

I believe a born again Christian is one who has accepted Jesus as Lord and believes in their heart that God has raised Him from the dead.

Many years ago, I was introduced to a ministry called "The Way" that teaches about being born again. Some folks have different variations, but I believe what was taught there.

Here's a quote on how to get born again from a man named Victor Paul Wierwille, founder of The Way International, from his book "Power for Abundant Living":

Romans tells how it is possible for a man who is dead in trespasses and sins and without God and without hope to be made alive.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

What faith? The faith of Jesus Christ. This faith comes when the man of body and soul hears the Word of God and believes.

Romans 10:9:
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

What is it to "confess it with thy mouth"? It is to say it. Does one have to say it at an alter? Romans 10 does not say that. But, could one confess Jesus as his Lord at an alter? It does not say where one has to confess Jesus as Lord: the Bible simply says to confess. Does a person have to say it out loud? Romans 10 does not say so; it is possible to confess the Lord Jesus Christ silently without making an audible sound.

"Confess with thy mouth" does not say confess one's sins. If it had said "confess your sins," salvation would be of works; and we are not saved by works, but by grace. A man does not confess his sins; he confesses the Savior from sin, the Lord Jesus Christ.

I wonder how many thousands of people believe that they are born again of God's spirit but are not. They may have a feeling on the inside that they are saved, but a feeling does not save them. A person is saved by being born again of God's Spirit. Feelings may come and go, but the Word of God lives and abides forever. I could go to an altar, cry out all my sins, and get a good feeling. But a person can get that same good feeling on a psychiatrist's couch. We are not saved by feeling, we are saved by doing what The Word says. It says "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus." That is, say, "Jesus, you are Lord in my life." Who has been lord as long as a person is just body and soul? The person himself. But now that person is going to change lordships when he confesses with his mouth a new Lord -- Jesus Christ.

That is what is says, but that is not all. Romans 10:9 further says, "and shalt believe in thine heart." The heart is the seat of the personal life; today we would say, "Believe with all your mind, all your strength, every ounce of your being." What is a person to believe? That Jesus Christ is the greatest prophet of all time? No. The Word says, "believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead." One must confess with his mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in the innermost part of his being that God raised Him from the dead; then a man shall -- absolutely, unquestionably -- be saved. When? Not when he dies, but right when he confesses Jesus as Lord and believes that God raised Him from the dead.

Of all the great religious leaders there is only one who has been raised from the dead and that is Jesus Christ. This is the proof that He is God's only begotten Son. Do you believe that God raised Jesus from the dead? Do you believe that He is your Lord? Have you confessed it with your mouth? The Word says that you are saved.

Romans 10:10:
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The moment I fulfill these two requirements, I am born again of God's Spirit. This is eternal life. This is such a tremendous truth that it is almost unbelievable; but I do believe it because God's Word is true and abides forever. Now I am His son for I have confessed with my mouth the Lord Jesus and I have believed that God raised him from the dead.

The moment a person confesses with his mouth Jesus as Lord that person is converted, saved, born again. A man can be a natural man of body and soul one minute; but as he hears the Word of God and believes to the point that he says, "Jesus is Lord of my life and I know God raised Him from the dead," he is born again of God's Spirit. That person has instantly changed lords; he is now on the way to heaven and all hell cannot stop him from going because he is a son of God having Christ in him. He has eternal life. He is no longer a natural man because he has received the spirit from God.

Victor Paul Wierwille
PFAL
Part IV -- The New Birth
Chapter 19 -- Born Again of Incorruptible Seed