Posts by crazies

6

Nebuchadnezzar NOT KING in 607 B.C.

by rockhound in

the watchtower society certainly has had much to say over the years about king nebuchadnezzar destroying jerusalem in the year 607 b.c., and over 6 million loyal followers have accepted their every printed word as if the very finger of god had written it in stone and had handed it directly to editors of the watchtower magazine.

well, it would seem, that someone back in brooklyn doesn't know whether they "are a foot", or "horseback".

over and over, the soceity uses a.k.

crazies

Beautiful!

19

One Scripture that proves WTS false and how

by crazies in

list one verse or verses that can prove wts false and how.

i'll start:.

(matthew 24:23-28) 23 "then if anyone says to you, look!

crazies

These are all great!!!!!!

Golf, sorry if I started a duplicate thread. I don't get to spend as much time on here that I would like to see what has been started before.

19

One Scripture that proves WTS false and how

by crazies in

list one verse or verses that can prove wts false and how.

i'll start:.

(matthew 24:23-28) 23 "then if anyone says to you, look!

crazies

List one verse or verses that can prove WTS false and how. I'll Start:

(Matthew 24:23-28) 23

"Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. (Why?) 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it. (Why?)--(Because)---27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 28 Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts(SUNRISE) and shines over to western parts(SUNSET), so the presence of the Son of man will be.

So Jesus is telling people not to believe if people say 'Look! Here is the Christ' or if people say 'Look! He is in the wilderness' --or look he's somewhere aka here in spirit or heaven. Why? Because it will be like a flash of lightning that flashes over the whole expanse of the sky, so it will be very noticable.

Now if you go by the WTBS and say this is only Jesus deciples that would notice him returning, in 1914 all the JW's (Bible Students) were considerd annointed, thus a class above the normal rank and file, so they all should have clearly been able to Identify Jesus presence or return. However it wasn't until 11 years later that only one man, Rutherford, and perhaps a couple others who he may have consulted that were able to discern Jesus Return. And it wasn't even until 1943 that Jesus presence = 1914 was clearly seen.

This does not fit the scriptures or even their teachings of who would be able to see it. I'm sorry but it doesn't take me 11 years to see lighting flash.

Your turn................

5

LOL

by crazies in

we cannot assume that all blood is yet being tested.

for example, it is reported that by the start of 1989, about 80 percent of brazil's blood banks were not under government control, nor were they testing for aids

i thought this was funny.

crazies

We cannot assume that all blood is yet being tested. For example, it is reported that by the start of 1989, about 80 percent of Brazil's blood banks were not under government control, nor were they testing for AIDS

I thought this was funny. This is from WTS website. Why not just say:

We cannot assume that all blood is yet being tested. For example, it is reported that by the start of 1800, 0 percent of Brazil's blood banks were not under government control, nor were they testing for AIDS.

I'm sure Brazil is still using these computers today also to test their blood:

28

Has the Watchtower ever claimed to be inspired?

by jwfacts in

.

does anyone know if the watchtower has ever claimed to be inspired?

i know that they claim to be directed by holy spirit, which means the same as being inspired, but have they ever used the word inspired?

crazies

(Deutrernomy 18:20-22)

20 “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet ( nabiy') speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’

(www.blueletterbible.org)

Prophet--( nabiy')

1) spokesman, speaker, prophet

a) prophet

b) false prophet

c) heathen prophet

(Matthew 24:23,24)

23 “Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.

(Reasoning from the Scriptures pp136)

Have not Jehovah’s Witnesses made errors in their teachings?

Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.—Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6.

(Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)

Inspired

: outstanding or brilliant in a way or to a degree suggestive of divine inspiration <gave an inspired performance>

Inspiration

1 a : a divine influence or action on a person believed to qualify him or her to receive and communicate sacred revelation b : the action or power of moving the intellect or emotions c : the act of influencing or suggesting opinions

(Awake 93 3/22 Why So Many False Alarms?)

Jehovah’s Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.’ The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah’s Witnesses, has said: “We have not the gift of prophecy.”

(Jeremiah 1:9 NWT)

9 At that Jehovah thrust his hand out and caused it to touch my mouth. Then Jehovah said to me: “Here I have put my words in your mouth.

(W79 9/1 The Royal “Shepherd” of Bible Prophecy p29-30 par.28)

28 Unlike the clergy class, those of the Jeremiah class have been sent by Jehovah to speak in his name. Nevertheless, the clergy prophets also claim to speak in his name and, hence, to tell the Bible truth. In this way Christendom’s religious leaders really ‘steal’ away the force and effect of the calamitous message proclaimed by the Jeremiah class. True, the Jeremiah class back up their message by quoting the words, “This is what Jehovah has said.” But the clergy try to add weight and the ring of truth to what they preach by affixing the words, “An utterance!” Seemingly they speak from God. So they may use a Bible text as a pretext for preaching about politics or even war propaganda. Yet Jehovah is against such clergy prophets whom he did not send forth from his intimate group and who ‘steal’ words from his Bible in order to make a wrong application of them.—Jer. 23:30, 31.

(w59 1/15 Down with the Old—Up with the New! P41)

. Jehovah’s witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. All the preaching and all the Bible educational work that they have done till now in 175 countries and islands of the sea they confess has been, not by help of a military army, nor by human power, but by God’s spirit, his invisible active force. (Zech. 4:6, AV) It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths. It has evidently been because he commissioned them to be over the nations and over the kingdoms

(w57 6/15 Overseers of Jehovah’s People p370 par7)

7a Let us now unmistakably identify Jehovah’s channel of communication for our day, that we may continue in his favor.

7b It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the “slave” as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision.

(W94 3/1 Jehovah’s Judgment Against False Teachers p11 par.13,14)

13 Please note Jeremiah chapter 23, verse 22: “If they had stood in my intimate group, then they would have made my people hear my own words, and they would have caused them to turn back from their bad way and from the badness of their dealings.” If Christendom’s religious prophets were standing in Jehovah’s intimate group, in close relationship with him as though a faithful and discreet servant, then they too would be living by God’s standards. They too would have been making the peoples of Christendom hear God’s own words. Instead, the modern-day false teachers have made their followers blinded servants of God’s Adversary, Satan the Devil.

14 Exposure of the clergy by the Jeremiah class has been powerful.

(W86 4/15 What Jehovah’s Times and Seasons Mean for Our Day p18 par.11)

11 So God’s servants know what this world’s rulers do not. They know Jehovah’s purposes and his seasons. First Peter 1:11 says that, in the past, God’s servants “kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of season the spirit in them was indicating.” With God’s spirit indicating this, the apostle Paul could say to true fellow worshipers: “You people know the season.” (Romans 13:11) Since Jehovah’s servants of today obey him as ruler, God’s holy spirit also reveals to them what season it is from his viewpoint. Amos 3:7 says: “The Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.”

(Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)

Reveal

1 : to make known through divine inspiration
2 : to make (something secret or hidden) publicly or generally known <reveal a secret>

(W80 10/15 Execution of the “Great Harlot” Nears p17 par.1,2)

THE Creator, Jehovah God, knows exactly what will take place in the future. He is “the One telling from the beginning the finale.” (Isa. 46:10) Being “perfect in knowledge,” he knows the details about the “finale” of this system of things at the coming “great tribulation.” (Job 37:16; Matt. 24:21) Because he is a God of love, he reveals enough of these details to those who serve him loyally that they can be properly informed, upbuilt and protected. The Bible states: “The Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.”—Amos 3:7.

2 Thus, God gives his humble servants special knowledge that others do not have. As the apostle Paul said: “This wisdom not one of the rulers of this system of things came to know . . . For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit.” (1 Cor. 2:8-10) Having advance knowledge from Jehovah, his servants are equipped—indeed, commissioned, by God—to herald throughout the world the warning of this system’s approaching end, along with the comforting message of the new order.—Matt. 24:14.

(W72 3/15 Wanted—a Messenger p189)

Therefore, when it came time for the name of Jehovah and his purposes to be declared to the people, along with God’s warning that Christendom is in her “time of the end,” who qualified to be commissioned? Who was willing to undertake this monumental task as Jehovah’s “servant”? Was there anyone to whom Jehovah’s heavenly “chariot” could roll up and whom it could confront? More accurately, was there any group on whom Jehovah would be willing to bestow the commission to speak as a “prophet” in His name, as was done toward Ezekiel back there in 613 B.C.E.?

(W72 4/1 ‘They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them’)

(P197) A third way of coming to know Jehovah God is through his representatives. In ancient times he sent prophets as his special messengers. While these men foretold things to come, they also served the people by telling them of God’s will for them at that time, often also warning them of dangers and calamities. People today can view the creative works. They have at hand the Bible, but it is little read or understood. So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?

IDENTIFYING THE “PROPHET”

These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? The clergy of the so-called “Christian” nations hold themselves before the people as being the ones commissioned to speak for God. But, as pointed out in the previous issue of this magazine, they have failed God and failed as proclaimers of his kingdom by approving a man-made political organization, the League of Nations (now the United Nations), as “the political expression of the

However, Jehovah did not let the people of Christendom, as led by the clergy, go without being warned that the League was a counterfeit substitute for the real . He had a “prophet” to warn them. This “prophet” was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. They are still proclaiming a warning, and have been joined and assisted in their commissioned work by hundreds of thousands of persons who have listened to their message with belief.

(p198-199) Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel’s work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the “prophet” commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God’s Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom.

(p200) The scroll was doubtless delivered to Ezekiel by the hand of one of the cherubs in the vision. This would indicate that Jehovah’s witnesses today make their declaration of the good news of the Kingdom under angelic direction and support. (Rev. 14:6, 7; Matt. 25:31, 32) And since no word or work of Jehovah can fail, for he is God Almighty, the nations will see the fulfillment of what these witnesses say as directed from heaven.

(Daniel’s Prophecy chap 17 p292 par 11)

THEY ‘SHINE LIKE THE STARS’

11 The next two verses of Daniel chapter 12 do even more to help us identify “the holy ones of the Supreme One.” In verse 3 the angel tells Daniel: “The ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever.” Who are “the ones having insight” today? Again, the evidence points to the same “holy ones of the Supreme One.” After all, who but the faithful anointed remnant had the insight to discern that Michael, the Great Prince, began standing as King in 1914? By preaching such truths as this—as well as by maintaining Christian conduct—they have been “shining as illuminators” in this spiritually bedarkened world. (Philippians 2:15; John 8:12) Concerning them, Jesus prophesied: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”—Matthew 13:43.

39

Parousia and invisibe presence

by Hellrider in

i`m discussing something with a jw.

i claim that the greek "parousia" doesn`t mean invisible presence, it simply means "presence".

isn`t that correct?

crazies

Fairmind wrote:

The apostle Paul spoke of his being "absent in body but present in spirit" with the congregation in Corinth.—1 Cor. 5:3.

The word used here for present is pareimi however, and yes the JW love to use this. But as you can see it is not the same word, pareimi is however the root word of parousia. So parousia is actually adding to the meaning of pareimi. Pareimi means:

1) to be by, be at hand, to have arrived, to be present

2) to be ready, in store, at command

So does mean to be by, or to be present in spirit.

However as we know, the apostles nor Jesus used pareimi, they used parousia and the meaning of parousia is:

1) presence

2) the coming, arrival, advent

a) the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

Parousia is from the present participle of the word pareimi, so instead of it meaning to be at hand as pareimi means, as you can see by the definition it actually means to be present, to arrive, to come.

All these definitions by the way are taken from www.blueletterbible.org there you can also look at the original greek words if you click on the "c" beside the verse, then you can click on the greek (or hebrew) word and see the definition, you can also see all the other verses in the bible that use that greek word, that way you can get the context of how the word is used most of the time. Look at parousia, it is quite interesting how it is used the rest of the time in the bible. (strongs number 3952=parousia)

39

Your first talk at the Theorcatic Ministry School, do you remember it?

by JH in

jw
friends

i do, i had to read ezekiel 9: (1-11)

and he proceeded to call out in my ears with a loud voice, saying: have those giving their attention to the city come near, each one with his weapon in his hand for bringing ruin!

there were six men coming from the direction of the upper gate that faces to the north, each one with his weapon for smashing in his hand; and there was one man in among them clothed with linen, with a secretarys inkhorn at his hips, and they proceeded to come in and stand beside the copper altar.

crazies

I don't remember what it was about, but I was 5 and couldn't read yet so I gave it with another brother sitting on the stage (it was a sisters part by the way) and I am of the male sex. Yeah I'll remember that one.

38

My website: www.reexamine.org

by reexaminer in

jw
friends

greetings.. i have started a project that i hope will stay online for times indefinate, even to times indefinate.

you can find it at www.reexamine.org .. i started working on it in october and it is still a work in progress, however because of the shut down of the website located at http://quotes.watchtower.ca i felt that i should release the site in "as-is" condition, instead of waiting until it was completely finished.. currently, there isn't a lot of content in the 'wiki' section of the website.

hopefully in the next few days and weeks that will change, however there are still programming issues that i have to work out before that can happen.

crazies

What about adding a section for letters to the society and the responses?

84

WTBS article prove 587/586 BC fall of Babylon

by crazies in

labashi-marduk: (9 months) succeeded by nabonidus

(insight volume 1 p.453 chronology; watchtower 1965 january 1 p.29)

evil-merodach: 560 bce562 bce (2 years)

crazies

There is absolutely nothing in Daniel chapter 5 that connects with Jertemiah 25:12

Well the WTBTS disagrees with you, you know since they connected the two with a marginal reference at Daniel 5:26

The prophecy is very clearly laid out in Jeremiah 25, and that it would be fulfilled against the (1) king of bablyon, (2) and against that nation. If we go by your theory that it was fulfilled in 637, then Jehovah would have had to call to account against Cyrus, but nothing happened to Cyrus in 637 it would not have fulfilled calling to account against the king of bablyon. Clearly Jeremiah 12 says that when seventy years were fulfilled, Jehovah would call to account. Not before.

Other scriptures which I have read must be read in the light of the orginal prophecy which is cut and dry clear.

Not to mention that none of this really matters because if we read Jesus words, no one will know when he is returning, hence the signs so we know its close at hand. Hence why Jesus told his people to be watchfull, and even warned against those who claimed that he had already returned.

I know you know you are right, but then again there was people that new the earth was flat and killed those that didn't believe, and theres a group of native people living in the amazon that won't cross a river because they KNOW there are giants living on the other side, and that the mountains beyond really touch the stars, they of course know that is right as well.

So your telling me Jehovah would use a group of people to tell this to who had spawned from someone else Jesus cleary had warned againt being mislead by? Russell, as I'm sure you are aware, said that Jesus came in 1874-therefore he was cleary saying --"Look! Here is the Christ--which even witnesses agrees that he was saying that, and he also made false prophetic statements. So Jesus decided to use somone that he had warned against not being mislead by? Seems hypocritical.

84

WTBS article prove 587/586 BC fall of Babylon

by crazies in

labashi-marduk: (9 months) succeeded by nabonidus

(insight volume 1 p.453 chronology; watchtower 1965 january 1 p.29)

evil-merodach: 560 bce562 bce (2 years)

crazies

As far as the 7 years of Neb. go, if you look at what Josephus wrote, that Evil ruled for 16 years, this could actually corroborate with what Jeffro wrote, that Neb was still the "official" king during that time. However since Evil was his son he would have likely been the one ruling in Nebs absence. No doubt his son would have probably tried to hide the fact at the time that his father was not there mentally. Much like today people will quite frequently hide that fact that some politician, BIG business man, or some notable person is ill, dying pretty much anything that would make them look weak or bad from the general public so stocks won't go down or so the President doesn't look week or some other reason.

So if Evil was in effect co-ruler (yet subordinate still to his father, much like Belshazzar and Nabonidus) he could have been described as ruling for 16 years while in fact he was only the "official" king of Babylon for 2 years after his fathers death.

I'm not saying this is fact or anything, but it very well could cover the 7 years.