I remember my best friend one time told me of this elder he with one time. I can't remember his name so we will call him Brother J. Well brother J apparently had a knack for being very tricky with words and had the neat ability to trap people and put overwhelming pressure on the householder to break under uncertainty. My best friend was actually bragging about this guy being "amazing" he actually said "Bro J wouldn't even let the other guy get a word in". Ahh how Bro J swung that Interrupting Sword of Truth and totaly obliterated two-way communication and became an opressive scripture quoting blackhole was encouraging!
Morocco
JoinedPosts by Morocco
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24
What's the most unexpected comments your JW companion said in the FS?
by JH ini remember once, we were in the field service, and my companion was talking to the householder.
the householder said, "we don't go to church anymore", thinking this would deceive us....lol.
so, my jw friend told him, hey that's great !!!
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Observations and questions on the Apologetics
by Morocco ini was doing some thinking today about anti and pro jw websites and message boards.
on the anti-jw forums, such as this one and probably many more, we have pro-jw apologetics.
also it should be fairly reasonable to say that on the pro-jw forums that there are people who are making attacks.
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Morocco
I was doing some thinking today about anti and pro JW websites and message boards. On the anti-JW forums, such as this one and probably many more, we have pro-JW apologetics. Also it should be fairly reasonable to say that on the pro-JW forums that there are people who are making attacks. My point is there are a lot of active witnesses and x-witnesses participating in communication forums despite the Society's warnings about the internet. I remember when the WT said that members should not have their own websites defending, posting, or saying anything at all with their copywritten material. The implication is ?leave the digital medium to us?, which could include a defense of the faith in forums. At any rate I get the distinct impression that there are more people not only attacking, but DEFENDING the JW doctrine than the Society wants. They are of course scared things will get out of control and they will have to tack one more objective on the board in the ?damage control? room. The problem, however, is that the WT can not stop its members from their own curiosity. Its only natural for people to defend their beliefs. Most witnesses I know will say ?oh well the WT is teaching caution of the internet, not avoidance, its okay to defend your faith because we have the truth?. Most witnesses aren't avidly avoiding the internet like the Black Plague indicating the WT made too subtle of a point or people have chosen to view it in a certain light. It seems to me the number of ?unauthorized? apologetics, who sometimes not only defend but defend in an aggressive way, are increasing which in turn means the number of lurkers, both anti-JW and pro-JW are increasing. This also means there are now more people than ever reading things they have been taught are wrong. They are, with the help of the internet, knowingly and unknowingly testing their faith as prescribed by the WT to see if it holds true. Not only are they testing but they are being forced to adapt and alter their beliefs in light of certain truths and play with words so the WT won't seem like what it really is. The manipulation of words and ideas is the evidence of the apologetic person's own denial. This adaptation of belief by the members is the evidence that the Witness teachings, coupled with the desire to defend, are getting too prolific and are escaping the GB's iron fist of control. Whereas in the past most would avoid engaging in conversations and hearing what outsiders had to say of the Witnesses today we have an anonymous, safe, controlled environment to actively engage in apostate conversations. I'm sure the WT will retaliate with something like this if the situation gets out of hand... ?no one is above the devil, apostate conversations even in defense of Jah will overtake you?. They will passify their members flare for the defense of their God and it will be one more thing that will eventually bite them in the arse. My question is, have the people, through the digital medium, begun to take the reigns away from the GB by defending the faith either publicly in ?chat rooms? or by defending it in their own minds and having to create new ideas for themselves?
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Free Will vs. Destiny
by Morocco infree will vs. destiny
preordination
n : (theology) being determined in advance; especially the doctrine (usually associated with calvin) that god has foreordained every event throughout eternity (including the final salvation of mankind) [syn: predestination, foreordination, predetermination]
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Morocco
i swear... if i cant figure out how to FORMAT im going to go crazy!
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Free Will vs. Destiny
by Morocco infree will vs. destiny
preordination
n : (theology) being determined in advance; especially the doctrine (usually associated with calvin) that god has foreordained every event throughout eternity (including the final salvation of mankind) [syn: predestination, foreordination, predetermination]
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Morocco
Free Will vs. Destiny preordination n : (theology) being determined in advance; especially the doctrine (usually associated with Calvin) that God has foreordained every event throughout eternity (including the final salvation of mankind) [syn: predestination, foreordination, predetermination] free will 1. free and independent choice; voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will. 2. Philosophy. the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces. Herein the definitions lies the absurdity of mainstreams Christians. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to that say ?everything happens for a reason?, ?its all part of a greater plan?, ?when its your time to go... its your time to go?. These comments, and many others, imply that many Christians believe in a destiny, or a preordaining of events. Everything is controlled by God, and thought out as in a chess game. This is in a direct and unresolvable conflict with the concept of ?free will?. Here is my thought: if we are indeed influenced by spirits in a preordained environment then free will can not exist. I could choose not to cooperate with the spiritual forces of destiny thereby creating a necessity, an utmost and undeniable need, for removing my free will so in turn I have no choice but to fall into the game plan. However, if you believe in free will, then you also remove God's influence, both good or punishing, altogether. You also remove ?the Devil's? influence as well. No one is forced to do anything, which means that we can be offered incentives, but no action to directly effect our decisions. In turn, speaking in tounges, holy spirit casting out demons, demonic possession, water from rocks, seas parting, and staffs turning into snakes are all removed because this is a direct influence on our free will; our right to choose in an unbiased light. Also the numerous influences from Jesus and Yahweh are quite unbalanced against the sporadic demonic possessions. God could do everything imaginable: raise the dead, rain fire from heaven, levitate people, cure disease, flood the whole Earth... and Satan could make people drool and freak out. Is this an unbiased example of free will? Obviously not, so to me it seems that predestination has been taught and reinforced for a long time before free will showed up on the scene. (I admit I am not a scholar but these are just simple observations) Is it really our free and unbiased choices when God and the Devil are constantly displaying vivid powers on Earth? God: ?I can do this for man!? Devil: ?I can do THIS for man!? God: ?Look here!? Devil: ?No, look here!? In light of all these points the question remains: why is it that many Christians believe in two completely opposing theologies? And how can free will stand to the crushing evidence of constant and direct interference?
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How do you feel about the name Jehovah?
by JWdaughter indo you use it anymore?
do you care?
do you cringe when you hear it?
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Morocco
i feel that since the name has been lost it is silly to place importance on it, am i doomed to death because i did not say God's name in prayer? besides its a mans name, just like the concept of god. what a-hole assumes god is exactly like us? for humans, learning what and who god is can be compared to monkies trying to learn financial responsibility... concepts, like the bible, that are basically a lie are needed as a dumbed down comparison for reality because we arent on the same level as him, we can not understand anything but a likeness to something we know. what if god is nothing like we know? every explination is a lie. But does it matter? Its the same thing with his name, did someone interview god and ask him to spell his name? of course not, some guy made it up in the presence of necessity, maybe it was communicated, who cares... if you need a name to differentiate the true god from a shmorgasboard of false gods then the true god isnt all that wonderful is he?
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Name Things JWs Try To "Demonize"
by minimus inthe witnesses are always trying to scare the faithful by telling them that if they don't adhere to the teachings and lifestyle of the brotherhood-----that bad things are going to happen to them.
for example, they might tell you of brother regret who left the "truth", had "fun" in the "world" and then got aids.
now he's back in the "truth" but he only has months to live................can you think of other examples of how the witnesses try to spook the rank and file?
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Morocco
rofl midwich... people are much easier to hypnotize when they are in a coma... i actually know people who threw out all their "worldly" CDs and got the whole kingdom melodies on CDs...
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Name Things JWs Try To "Demonize"
by minimus inthe witnesses are always trying to scare the faithful by telling them that if they don't adhere to the teachings and lifestyle of the brotherhood-----that bad things are going to happen to them.
for example, they might tell you of brother regret who left the "truth", had "fun" in the "world" and then got aids.
now he's back in the "truth" but he only has months to live................can you think of other examples of how the witnesses try to spook the rank and file?
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Morocco
yeah anything that relaxes your mind, or allows you to wipe clean the chaos in your brain is demonic... the WT wants you to be so high strung youre about to snap... and "new age" music WHILE doing yoga? OMG youd be posessed by SATAN himself!
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Name Things JWs Try To "Demonize"
by minimus inthe witnesses are always trying to scare the faithful by telling them that if they don't adhere to the teachings and lifestyle of the brotherhood-----that bad things are going to happen to them.
for example, they might tell you of brother regret who left the "truth", had "fun" in the "world" and then got aids.
now he's back in the "truth" but he only has months to live................can you think of other examples of how the witnesses try to spook the rank and file?
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Morocco
did anyone get the "techno and trance music are bad because they are repetative and they put you in a 'trance' and demons can GET YOU in a trance!"
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OK, Let's think this out
by purplesofa inlet's say.......there is no god, the bible is not inspired by god........ but.
what is written is being played out.. is what is written being played out?.
why don't we change the future?.
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Morocco
Maybe armageddon has already happened countless times in the past. Maybe armageddon is just the term when the Gods war each other and humans get destroyed, which is then followed by a time of peace between the Gods, maybe the Bible is just an old war flyer floating through time...
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What Things Were You Shocked To Find Out About, While In The Org.
by Warlock inthese are just 3 things that i was shocked to learn when i was in the org.
they may not seem like big things to some, but they are to me.. 1. speakers at the d.a.
had food catered to them.
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Morocco
The biggest thing for me was the fact that there wasn't a single person in my Hall that didn't lead some kind of double life. And wednesday made the point that we don't confess our sins to our elders. Why? I will never know, but the WT wants to run a religion without giving even a small amount of loving care to the members, in turn it creates a division between people because the Elders are taught not to care but to disfellowship. This double life is natural for any of the dubs who have sined but still believe its "the truth", this in turn causes emotional conflicts, paranoia, the fear that your double life will be exposed because you can't confess lest you be punished. They are left with a bitter-sweet love=hate for God and are in total conflict... I think this is a primary reason why most people begin to doubt the JWs and then feed that doubt or go insane.