Think about this one: the bible says one day Satan, the father of all evils, will be destroyed and by extension all the sufferings of the spiritual creatures and physical creatures. I know the JW's teach that Jehovah is allowing evil in order to prove a moral point that He is the only one who can effectively rule this reality. However, imagine a paradise on earth billions of years after the destruction of evil. Now you have a world full of individuals who had never experienced evil, they never knew it intimately as we do. Now God says that we can't do certain things like disobey him, or murder, or things like this. Why? Because it does not help anyone and it does not get you what you need, and its bad and morally wrong. In the minds of the ignorant generation this would appear as if God were controlling them and not allowing them the FREE WILL to choose to go against what his laws are. So the point is this: the moment people forget evil they forget the salvation from it. And a world where God does not allow people to disobey Him is a world without free will. Perhaps this wouldn't be a bad thing, but I can not see how the generations of people who never knew what evil was, how it felt, and all its effects can have the ability NOT to see God as someone who limits their ability to think and choose for themselves. Yes, it would be their own fault because in reality God would be trying to help and save them... but in doing so removes the ability to choose. We can attempt to fix this problem by passing down through the generations knowledge of Satan and the big war between him and God, but they still will not have experienced it first hand, and experiencing something like World War 2 or the Holocaust was enormously different than reading about it. The ability to go against God's laws was allowed to Satan and all the creatures from the start and God had to have anticipated this, so in a way if you remove rebellion from God you also remove the ability to choose. Does anyone else agree or disagree? What do you all think?
Morocco
JoinedPosts by Morocco
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If Satan is destroyed will another Satan be born?
by Morocco inthink about this one: the bible says one day satan, the father of all evils, will be destroyed and by extension all the sufferings of the spiritual creatures and physical creatures.
i know the jw's teach that jehovah is allowing evil in order to prove a moral point that he is the only one who can effectively rule this reality.
however, imagine a paradise on earth billions of years after the destruction of evil.
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Let's all think about "Imperfection"... comments?
by Morocco ingod created everything, right?
if so then god also created our skin with the ability to heal from cuts, wounds and tears.
which means that god anticipated the infliction of pain and set a system in place to counter accidents.
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Morocco
rofl onthewayout... "Stop trying to understand everything with your independent thinking"
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Let's all think about "Imperfection"... comments?
by Morocco ingod created everything, right?
if so then god also created our skin with the ability to heal from cuts, wounds and tears.
which means that god anticipated the infliction of pain and set a system in place to counter accidents.
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Morocco
under believer... i hear that too sometimes... but if snakes really "grew" into what they are now... doesn't that imply evolution? *gasp*
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The most annoying issues you found within the organization were ...
by The wanderer inuntitled document <!-- .style1 {font-family: verdana} .style2 {font-family: verdana; font-style: italic; } --> the things that seemed to bother us the most before leaving the organization there were a number of.
things that used to bother me within the organization.. for example, the time that the organization use to.
absorb, it seemed that i gave more than i received.
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Morocco
The whole thought control was pretty annoying. Dont think about this, dont think about that... dont have sex in this way, dont do this to your own body which we don't even own, dont reason this or that... wow crap I forgot Jesus was a drone that followed the Jewish Law to the letter... thats why they must have been mad at him.
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Let's all think about "Imperfection"... comments?
by Morocco ingod created everything, right?
if so then god also created our skin with the ability to heal from cuts, wounds and tears.
which means that god anticipated the infliction of pain and set a system in place to counter accidents.
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Morocco
God created everything, right? If so then God also created our skin with the ability to heal from cuts, wounds and tears. Which means that God anticipated the infliction of pain and set a system in place to counter accidents. He also created pain, which is a warning system to let us know we are in danger somehow. God also created snakes; they have hollow fangs that inject venom into their prey, once paralyzed they consume it. This is violence and some creatures are built to kill. Spiders do the same thing, with deadly poison, but interestingly enough spiders can CHOOSE to inject the venom. We aren't talking about robots, the creatures built with deadly weapons can choose to use them. Viral infections and bacteria exist as a part of nature, many things can take advantage of these supposedly harmful things. Even our skin has healthy bacteria. So the question is: did God create, down to the fundamental atomic levels of reality, a system of pain, violence in animals, and harmful microbes in a pre-sin world? Or, did these things come about AFTER sin? If they did show up after the fall of man, then why would God recreate and change the original versions snakes, spiders, bacteria, viruses, or add them in later just to hurt us and the animals? I thought, as the Bible says, that something bad can not come from something good. What relation does darkness have with light? God is incapable of evil and lies... correct? So if God didn't create these things after sin, who did? Does someone else have CREATION rights? Or, more logically in my opinion, were they always there to begin with and there was no alteration of Creation after sin? If this is so think about what that says about the original pre-sinful world of Adam and Eve, and God. What are you guyzez thoughts on this subject?
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What's the most unexpected comments your JW companion said in the FS?
by JH ini remember once, we were in the field service, and my companion was talking to the householder.
the householder said, "we don't go to church anymore", thinking this would deceive us....lol.
so, my jw friend told him, hey that's great !!!
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Morocco
I remember my best friend one time told me of this elder he with one time. I can't remember his name so we will call him Brother J. Well brother J apparently had a knack for being very tricky with words and had the neat ability to trap people and put overwhelming pressure on the householder to break under uncertainty. My best friend was actually bragging about this guy being "amazing" he actually said "Bro J wouldn't even let the other guy get a word in". Ahh how Bro J swung that Interrupting Sword of Truth and totaly obliterated two-way communication and became an opressive scripture quoting blackhole was encouraging!
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Observations and questions on the Apologetics
by Morocco ini was doing some thinking today about anti and pro jw websites and message boards.
on the anti-jw forums, such as this one and probably many more, we have pro-jw apologetics.
also it should be fairly reasonable to say that on the pro-jw forums that there are people who are making attacks.
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Morocco
I was doing some thinking today about anti and pro JW websites and message boards. On the anti-JW forums, such as this one and probably many more, we have pro-JW apologetics. Also it should be fairly reasonable to say that on the pro-JW forums that there are people who are making attacks. My point is there are a lot of active witnesses and x-witnesses participating in communication forums despite the Society's warnings about the internet. I remember when the WT said that members should not have their own websites defending, posting, or saying anything at all with their copywritten material. The implication is ?leave the digital medium to us?, which could include a defense of the faith in forums. At any rate I get the distinct impression that there are more people not only attacking, but DEFENDING the JW doctrine than the Society wants. They are of course scared things will get out of control and they will have to tack one more objective on the board in the ?damage control? room. The problem, however, is that the WT can not stop its members from their own curiosity. Its only natural for people to defend their beliefs. Most witnesses I know will say ?oh well the WT is teaching caution of the internet, not avoidance, its okay to defend your faith because we have the truth?. Most witnesses aren't avidly avoiding the internet like the Black Plague indicating the WT made too subtle of a point or people have chosen to view it in a certain light. It seems to me the number of ?unauthorized? apologetics, who sometimes not only defend but defend in an aggressive way, are increasing which in turn means the number of lurkers, both anti-JW and pro-JW are increasing. This also means there are now more people than ever reading things they have been taught are wrong. They are, with the help of the internet, knowingly and unknowingly testing their faith as prescribed by the WT to see if it holds true. Not only are they testing but they are being forced to adapt and alter their beliefs in light of certain truths and play with words so the WT won't seem like what it really is. The manipulation of words and ideas is the evidence of the apologetic person's own denial. This adaptation of belief by the members is the evidence that the Witness teachings, coupled with the desire to defend, are getting too prolific and are escaping the GB's iron fist of control. Whereas in the past most would avoid engaging in conversations and hearing what outsiders had to say of the Witnesses today we have an anonymous, safe, controlled environment to actively engage in apostate conversations. I'm sure the WT will retaliate with something like this if the situation gets out of hand... ?no one is above the devil, apostate conversations even in defense of Jah will overtake you?. They will passify their members flare for the defense of their God and it will be one more thing that will eventually bite them in the arse. My question is, have the people, through the digital medium, begun to take the reigns away from the GB by defending the faith either publicly in ?chat rooms? or by defending it in their own minds and having to create new ideas for themselves?
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Free Will vs. Destiny
by Morocco infree will vs. destiny
preordination
n : (theology) being determined in advance; especially the doctrine (usually associated with calvin) that god has foreordained every event throughout eternity (including the final salvation of mankind) [syn: predestination, foreordination, predetermination]
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Morocco
i swear... if i cant figure out how to FORMAT im going to go crazy!
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Free Will vs. Destiny
by Morocco infree will vs. destiny
preordination
n : (theology) being determined in advance; especially the doctrine (usually associated with calvin) that god has foreordained every event throughout eternity (including the final salvation of mankind) [syn: predestination, foreordination, predetermination]
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Morocco
Free Will vs. Destiny preordination n : (theology) being determined in advance; especially the doctrine (usually associated with Calvin) that God has foreordained every event throughout eternity (including the final salvation of mankind) [syn: predestination, foreordination, predetermination] free will 1. free and independent choice; voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will. 2. Philosophy. the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces. Herein the definitions lies the absurdity of mainstreams Christians. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to that say ?everything happens for a reason?, ?its all part of a greater plan?, ?when its your time to go... its your time to go?. These comments, and many others, imply that many Christians believe in a destiny, or a preordaining of events. Everything is controlled by God, and thought out as in a chess game. This is in a direct and unresolvable conflict with the concept of ?free will?. Here is my thought: if we are indeed influenced by spirits in a preordained environment then free will can not exist. I could choose not to cooperate with the spiritual forces of destiny thereby creating a necessity, an utmost and undeniable need, for removing my free will so in turn I have no choice but to fall into the game plan. However, if you believe in free will, then you also remove God's influence, both good or punishing, altogether. You also remove ?the Devil's? influence as well. No one is forced to do anything, which means that we can be offered incentives, but no action to directly effect our decisions. In turn, speaking in tounges, holy spirit casting out demons, demonic possession, water from rocks, seas parting, and staffs turning into snakes are all removed because this is a direct influence on our free will; our right to choose in an unbiased light. Also the numerous influences from Jesus and Yahweh are quite unbalanced against the sporadic demonic possessions. God could do everything imaginable: raise the dead, rain fire from heaven, levitate people, cure disease, flood the whole Earth... and Satan could make people drool and freak out. Is this an unbiased example of free will? Obviously not, so to me it seems that predestination has been taught and reinforced for a long time before free will showed up on the scene. (I admit I am not a scholar but these are just simple observations) Is it really our free and unbiased choices when God and the Devil are constantly displaying vivid powers on Earth? God: ?I can do this for man!? Devil: ?I can do THIS for man!? God: ?Look here!? Devil: ?No, look here!? In light of all these points the question remains: why is it that many Christians believe in two completely opposing theologies? And how can free will stand to the crushing evidence of constant and direct interference?
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How do you feel about the name Jehovah?
by JWdaughter indo you use it anymore?
do you care?
do you cringe when you hear it?
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Morocco
i feel that since the name has been lost it is silly to place importance on it, am i doomed to death because i did not say God's name in prayer? besides its a mans name, just like the concept of god. what a-hole assumes god is exactly like us? for humans, learning what and who god is can be compared to monkies trying to learn financial responsibility... concepts, like the bible, that are basically a lie are needed as a dumbed down comparison for reality because we arent on the same level as him, we can not understand anything but a likeness to something we know. what if god is nothing like we know? every explination is a lie. But does it matter? Its the same thing with his name, did someone interview god and ask him to spell his name? of course not, some guy made it up in the presence of necessity, maybe it was communicated, who cares... if you need a name to differentiate the true god from a shmorgasboard of false gods then the true god isnt all that wonderful is he?