I am Lutheran too. My brother is in JW, and it was too late when he told me that. I was not prepared to fight them then, and now it is up to God himself to bring my Brother back, as I have preached him Gospel allready. Eanything else is job of Holy Spirit.
Techniques which JW uses is decieving (they actually believe they have truth, so they are not evil just misguided). So they redefine terms, will try to confuse you with questions. Actually you have to know clearly WHAT Lutheran church teaches about all major aspects of Christianity.
I would suggest that IF you study, then study with some good educated Lutheran friend, somebody who is trained to expose differences and to let you know OTHER opinion then JW.
JW pretty good at knowing what normal people think about them, they will tell it to you and then you will feel like they are predicting things so they have some wisdom. No they have experience... about 100 year experience of brainwashing. You probably have maximum several weeks of Scriptular training as Lutheran. If you do not read offten your Bible and do not know how to defend your beliefs, then better not to be involved with JW.
For example now I am not afraid to face JWs as my faith is very strong and I know JW better they do (I mean teaching not people).
Be carefull they use "out-of-context" prooving. That is... try to prove something with similar verses where verses are in totally different context. They very tricky put into your mind things what are not told in Bible. For example that "small flock" is tha same "144000"... they make bizzare connections between scriptures, they twist and jump. They use your lack of knowledge of biblical languages (they don't know them too, just pretending). They show you some scriptures and do not show other scriptures which opposes they interpretation. They twist trinity even without understanding what it is and HOW trinity is thought in Lutheran church.
Read www.bible.ca
Shazard
JoinedPosts by Shazard
-
18
Self-intro, newbie questions
by Nara ini've been "cruising" the boards for two months now, and there appears to be a lot of very knowledgeable and "cool" individuals here.. i recently embarked on a introductory bible-study with the jws in my area.
i know that probably isn't music to most of your ears, but rest assured that i'm not remotely sold on their theology.
nor am i blind to the past scandals and current issues of the wtbts--i've read about four different scholarly works about the society.. i was raised as a lutheran, and i've had a decent amount of bible-schooling in the lutheran denomination.. my questions to you, those who would know, are these:.
-
-
Shazard
-
16
Baptism for the dead
by M.J. inwhat on earth was paul talking about in 1 cor 15:29: "now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead?
if the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?".
it's one of his main arguments for a bodily resurrection to the corinthians.
-
-
Shazard
M.J. I posted Romans 6 coz it explains what it is to be baptised in sens of "be dead". During baptism you die! So what Paul is saying IF there is no ressurection, then baptism is useless... as you die and never will be ressurected. So read context, what use of being baptised for dead if there is no ressurection. If there is no ressurection, then baptism is no use. Then whole Christianity is just a smoke!
-
12
Contradiction in NWT
by Desino inunder which name must christians be saved?
well according to wts it is jehovah.
this is written in joel 2: 32 (read nwt).
-
-
Shazard
This Acts 4:12 is very powerfull scripture!
-
16
Baptism for the dead
by M.J. inwhat on earth was paul talking about in 1 cor 15:29: "now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead?
if the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?".
it's one of his main arguments for a bodily resurrection to the corinthians.
-
-
Shazard
Romans 6 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. --- So for me it is pretty clear. Pauls is talking... what use to be baptised if there is no ressurection.
-
20
Anyone seen "The Island"
by onesong in.
it may have already been talked about here but i just saw it last night with some other "apostate" friends.. wasn't it amazing in it's similarity to the borg.. my favorite scene was everyone reading together "dick and jane" talk about a great watchtower study depiction!
-
-
Shazard
I think that there is slight difference. Island personel knew that there is no such Island. Borg personel is the clones themselves!
-
13
Jw vs Christianity...
by Rook instill wanna be a jw???.
jehovah's witnesses.
doctrinal comparison chartdoctrine/beliefjw supportchristian responseonly the watchtower society can interpret the bible.
-
-
Shazard
And Seee... This chart put you in JW or Chirstianity depending on who/what is your authority
-
7
WT Stats Updated - Downward trend continues
by richard in.
for whatever it's worth, the borg's 2005 data have been updated and included in some graphs.
it indicates a continuous downward trend.. http://home.zonnet.nl/rsingelenberg/stats-e.htm
-
-
Shazard
Did you saw this relative growth? I like this 1975 graph... VERY high at 1975, and after that... just like Armageddon... all down down down :)
-
17
Jephtah's daughter - human sacrifice or not?
by DannyBloem incan somebody bring some light to this question?.
judges chapter 11.. if you read vers 31 it looks clear that jephtha is speaking about human sacrefice.
"he speaks about a burn offering for jehovah of the first thing or person that walks out of his house.
-
-
Shazard
Ouh you people want explanation.
Well were do you find that God required this sacrifice of daughter?
Scripture teaches that when you do promisses to God you have to fullfill... And he does. Bible does not gives us judgement of his deed. But here comes tricky part... Imagine WHAT it took from father to realize that he have to give his daughter coz he promised itself! Would YOU give your daughter WOULD you change your mind after you made promise to God. I guess no... coz you don't take such promises seriously. But the father did... and he fulfilled his promise even it was HIS daughter.
Now question... would you like God to change his mind about giving his Son. What God felt when he had to give his Son for sacrifice? Will God fulfill his promise?
Think about it. Does this scripture teaches something bad about God or about men? -
17
Jephtah's daughter - human sacrifice or not?
by DannyBloem incan somebody bring some light to this question?.
judges chapter 11.. if you read vers 31 it looks clear that jephtha is speaking about human sacrefice.
"he speaks about a burn offering for jehovah of the first thing or person that walks out of his house.
-
-
Shazard
He did!
-
21
Was Adam's "fall" part of God's plan?
by dorayakii inthe watchtower society and many other fundamentalist christian faiths believe that god is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.
in other words he is almighty /all-powerful, all-knowing and all-good.
his omnibenelovence though, clashes with his omnipotence in that if he is powerful enough to change the human condition, and he is willing to do it, why does he permit suffering?...
-
-
Shazard
Ookey! I will try answer as I understand this issue!
See God created men plainly out of his will to share love. God is love (do not mix in opposit es "is" is not comutative). Similary for yourself if you feel love you want that everybody else would feel the same and feel god. It is naturally (I guess) for men to wish that everybody around you feels good and love.
So God created men out of love for love and because of love. It is in nature of God to arrange everything around love. BUT there is this catch with love. Love is tightly binded with freedom. There can not be love without freedom to NOT love. If your only choice or way of act possibly is only to love, then it is not love. You can think about this and you will get to similar conclusion, that love without freedom to NOT love is not love. The nature of love itself implies that it is possible to not love. To deny it.
And God knows this for sure. But it is risky to assume that God knowing what he is doing would not predict possible outcome of his own action. So the Tree in the garden was actually there for TEACHING basics about love and freedom to men. God KNEW that man can not obey because God have given freedom to act to man because of God's love to his own creation.
SOOOOOO man was acting pretty well UNTIL something outside God and Man directed mans actions... the snake. Go and read this tactics the snake used... tactics is VERY clever (btw will notice WT tactis)... to ask question a little bit changed. Then give the answer but not telling ALL the truth... only part of it. And starting from weakest point of chain - woman in this case. And wholala... man uses his freedom to NOT obey God's commandment. The rest you know.
So answer is - God KNEW what COULD happen as it was HIS creation, and even there he did this creation and universe in such way that even THEN his plan can be fullfilled only now in "hard way". God would not started creation if he would not be able succesfully to lead it to the end of his plan or to the next stage of his plan. It is human nature to think only plan A... but God will allways have plan B and C and even the plans are part of the same plan A.
For those of you who are programmers it can be very eazy to understand (I am programmer)... when you create your programs you never code in stright line... you have IF THEN, LOOP, WHILE, RETURN etc. And still your program does perfectly what it suppose to do... Mars Rover gets from Earth to Mars, lands, keeps walking and getting info even that the soft is full with IFs.
Also - those of you who played RolePlayingGames (on table)... Game Master allways have plan... and because of rules of the game he allways can lead the players to some specific goal even that players are still free to do whatever they like in bondaries of the rules.
Sorry for so long stuff...
Short conlculsion. God is God of Love and God of Just... And because of Love he created man free... even free to not to be free... Decieved by snake Men binded themself to this state - not to be free - and Jesus have broken this slavery giving the freedom again through Holy Spirit who heals us and restores the previous state of freedom and love. We just need to hold to this with our faith... faith is this "spiritual hand" which takes gifts of God. And the hand itself is gift :)