Hi Dondi-
It is my belief and experience that the most effective way to help a Witness is to be able to demonstrate and explain to them, in a loving and considerate way that respects them as a person, the difference between love and control. They truly believe that they are not being controlled in any way, and are in an extremely loving organization. The primary thing is to educate yourself (maybe even heal yourself a little too in the process) and compare what you are learning to what is happening in the organization, then you become in a much better position to help someone else that you love.
Don't push things, don't try to make things happen before they're ready to happen. Love is not controlling. A choice-respecting approach based on understanding is what will do the greatest good. Share information with another, use questions effectively to stimulate critical thought. Once you understand the interworkings of the organization and the methods used in the indocrination and social system, you will begin to understand just what to say and when. Remain CALM, patient and kind. If you follow this advice I have know doubt you will succeed and you will become closer to your family than ever, because love in action has the greatest power of all.
For more information on the techniques that you need to understand try my earlier post here.
Sentient
JoinedPosts by Sentient
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22
My Family or Thiers?
by Dondi ini am new to this site and am seeking a little advice from some of your more seasoned veterans.
i met my girlfriend about 7 years ago, when we met we fell in love and 2 years later had a baby and we moved in together.
i brought with me 2 children from a previous marriage and she had one from a previous as well.
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Sentient
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A Brief History
by Sentient ini posted this in another forum and i was advised to repost it here as well, so here you go.
the is the first time i've posted in a jw related forum since some years ago when i was an ms, or really made any comments to any former or current members outside of the immediate family.
although this may not be the appropriate subforum for it, i'll explain just a bit of my own history because it relates to my own conclusions as to the topic here at hand.
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Sentient
Okay I won't leave you hanging for too long, and since you don't seem to mind long posts...
After many months of establishing myself as a regular on that forum, I suppose that I became somewhat of a mystery to the other regulars, the only one who never disclosed any personal information. It was as if I was a man without a past, and the last thing I wanted to talk about was my past although I needed to more than anything...there was so much fear in me. But my saving grace was that I began to chat privately with a very special girl after being impressed with the feeling and expression behind some of the very candid poetry she had written. We began having lengthy, deeply meaningful exchanges. Late one night in a chat, I confessed to her my deepest darkest secret, that I had been...a Jehovah's Witness! My tears poured out because I was simultaneously confessing to myself what I had been and I thought surely no person in "the world" would befriend me if they knew who I had been and of my fight to stay sane. However, these were of course my own distorted perceptions and she happened to be a person of great compassion and sincerity.
Over time, our far-away friendship deepened and progressed to weekly then daily phonecalls, and eventually we came together in person as well. Since I had developed almost a split personality, for a long time she had to contend with my vascilating back and forth between my "Witness mind" and my new ideas about the world. Often she was not sure which one I really was! It was a great struggle to learn how to interact with another human being without controlling them through guilt or clever arguments, to learn to truly listen to and respect another's viewpoints and abandon the mentality of requiring others to conform to my views. Fortunately for me, I had found a true friend who showed me what it meant to believe in myself and how to become more concerned with others feelings than with whether or not I am "right". I had found a mirror that I could look into and make sense of myself, someone who allowed me to make sense experientially of the countless reams of data I kept taking in through my personal research. I was determined to understand life and I studied those books and websites just as intensely as I had the Bible! I have found the answers to my two most burning questions: What was wrong with me, and what is love.
Like all of you I haven't survived without scars, but with each passing day I feel more free and the once dark, evil world becomes more full of brightness, love and hope in my mind's eye. I feel a kind of calm and inner peace that I never knew was possible in this "old world". The war is over- the new system has come for me. This is my paradise, I do not fear death. I plan to continue learning and growing, and each day that I continue living will be a day that I feel a deep gratitude for my life and for my freedom. -
19
A Brief History
by Sentient ini posted this in another forum and i was advised to repost it here as well, so here you go.
the is the first time i've posted in a jw related forum since some years ago when i was an ms, or really made any comments to any former or current members outside of the immediate family.
although this may not be the appropriate subforum for it, i'll explain just a bit of my own history because it relates to my own conclusions as to the topic here at hand.
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Sentient
Again, thank you all for the welcome. Due to popular demand, the story continues...
So I found myself utterly alone in a strange city with limited resources, struggling to keep my sanity and without the social skills or mental stability to make any friends. I often thought about the fact that everyone in the family and in the congregation had looked up to me as an example of deep spirituality, and how I had failed them so miserably by not continuing to faithfully carry my burden of "Christian responsibility". I stopped praying because I felt God was so deeply ashamed of me for abandoning my post so deep into the time of the end that my approach to him would be blocked "as with a cloud mass" until I returned to the organization and asked the elders, then faithful men of God in my eyes, to intercede in my behalf, to beseech Jehovah to once again incline his ear to hear me despite my inadequacy. It was hell, rejected and alone in the dark, evil world surrounded by agents of the devil who could not be trusted. Somehow, I found within me the fortitude to secure a job and an apartment and immediately started visiting a local library. I would check out 10 books at a time and read them all in a week. I was especially interested in understanding the question of what was wrong with me, my brain must be broken I thought so psychology was a special draw at first and continued to be as the programming that streched into the deepest recesses of my mind would not even allow me to consciously, out loud, admit to the possibility that there was something wrong with the way I had been believing and living at the behest of the GB. But eventually I would begin to find the answers I sought, one piece at a time. -
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Quotes Mirror Archive For A Brave Willing Soul
by Rig Boy inquotes.watchtower.ca archive
i am calling on a brave individual to host a site using these archives.
if no one steps up, i will be forced to take on the task.
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Sentient
You don't realize how many people out there would jump at the chance to support you in this and would fairly throw large sums of money on the table to help to help with the legal hurdles, if you approach the right people in the right way and at the right time. One simple way is to attract the attention of someone more than willing to go up against them on this issue. What is a large sum of money to you is not necessarily a large sum to another person.
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A Brief History
by Sentient ini posted this in another forum and i was advised to repost it here as well, so here you go.
the is the first time i've posted in a jw related forum since some years ago when i was an ms, or really made any comments to any former or current members outside of the immediate family.
although this may not be the appropriate subforum for it, i'll explain just a bit of my own history because it relates to my own conclusions as to the topic here at hand.
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Sentient
No, I am of the even more evil DA'd variety.
Well, that's all I'll write for now. Tune in next time if you're interested in knowing what happened after that. I must say it is pretty incredible, even to me. -
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WTS vs Quotes: Requiem for a Research Web Site
by Quotes inin compliance with the terms of a settlement agreement, my information and research web site, http://quotes.watchtower.ca, is now "dark".
the domain "watchtower.ca" has been transferred to wts (i assume they will have it pointing to borg.org watchtower.org asap).
my copies of the site have been destroyed, the files deleted, and my wt library cd has been destroyed, in accordance with the settlement agreement which will afford a "discontinuance" of their suit against me.
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Sentient
Quotes:
Your site helped me as well. I respected the way you set it up. You have not failed, you have won. You will see, the wave is growing. Each of us has a role to play. Someday you will see how important yours was. Focus on balancing your personal life, you have worked hard. Your honesty will blossom and grow within the lives of those whom you've touched. You are creating a wonderful world of beauty for yourself. It grows from the inside out. -
19
A Brief History
by Sentient ini posted this in another forum and i was advised to repost it here as well, so here you go.
the is the first time i've posted in a jw related forum since some years ago when i was an ms, or really made any comments to any former or current members outside of the immediate family.
although this may not be the appropriate subforum for it, i'll explain just a bit of my own history because it relates to my own conclusions as to the topic here at hand.
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Sentient
I posted this in another forum and I was advised to repost it here as well, so here you go. Hi all,
The is the first time I've posted in a JW related forum since some years ago when I was an MS, or really made any comments to any former or current members outside of the immediate family. Although this may not be the appropriate subforum for it, I'll explain just a bit of my own history because it relates to my own conclusions as to the topic here at hand.
I find now that in the big picture ex JWs have opinions that cover the entire breadth of a possible spectrum of opinions. All I can do is offer my own current perspective. Having been raised as a JW, I can tell you that I believe I was about as "in" mentally as it is possible to get as recently as a few years ago. I can tell you that I was the very type of person most "beloved" by the organization, the kind who obediently carries out direction without question, who maintains the outward appearance of spirtual accomplishment along with a growing inward hatred of and disbelief in the self, who has no personal life whatsoever outside the congregation. I was one of those ones the back-room frequenters couldn't stand, one who never seemed to make any mistakes, MS by the age of 19, eloquent speaker, on-the-fly substitute talk expert, insanely intelligent, astute WT policy and prophecy explainer/defender, territory card creator and servant, accounts assistant, enthusiastic volunteer for the worst menial tasks of service and special adopted child of and spy for the congregation elders. I would stay up late into the nights studying and praying, begging Jehovah to help me to be faithful and not succumb to the lure of the Satanic conspiracy that surrounded me. I was brother spiritual/useful/slave-of-all, on the fast track to Bethel and elderhood.
Through my own ongoing survival (I'm still alive!) and recovery process, I've come to believe there are certain psychological profiles of people who emerge from the mental trauma of that extremely controlled environment to become the leaders and "pillars of the congregation". I think the key to understanding and effectively dealing with what is without lies in understanding and effectively dealing with what is within. I would posit that most who fit my "need for absolute certainty" profile would have taken their own lives or become permantently entrapped in uncontrolled irrational paranoia, but I believe that I have survived with a semblence of sanity for a reason. And I congratulate all of you like me who also have survived or are even going strong now.
So now I won't tell you what to do, I'll just tell you what I believe. I believe I cannot fight fear with fear. I believe that in order to be of the greatest help to current Witnesses, I must become as much as possible an example of internal control...the polar opposite of the extreme end of the external control model of human interaction so finely demonstrated to me by the GB and their adherants. After all, I was them. They are me. Not long ago I would have defended their doctrines to the death just as they might now. Some of you may disagree, but at the deepest level, I do not believe there are evil people, only more or less damaged people.
So when the GB, or other Witnesses, go on fearing me and calling me apostate as in this article, I will not try to save them by force or get back at them, but calmly speak my mind and offer them information that I believe will help them when the time is right. I will not ignore or keep silent about the hurt I've experienced or the judgment, labelling and abuse they still promote, but if I am to bring about change I must respect that they are human like me. Life is a journey and we are in it together, even those who have hurt me and others and still don't acknowledge it. I will strive, in my life, to be an example of nonjudgment and unconditional love...what I needed most but never had until I left the organization.
It is real love and acceptance that WILL change not only the Witnesses but the world (thank God for the internet). It comes through awareness and understanding of the dynamics of fear, and through an internal choice of a kind which I still find hard to explain. As I understand it now, *all lasting positive change is internally motived*. What is it that gives a hardcore Witness the incentive to face that which they have feared most? I believe even the most afraid and dishonest of people can become honest and can learn what real love is about. A single choice-respecting act of true love and compassion can result in a cascade of understanding more powerful than the biggest class-action law suit (though law suits can help). I think soon we will be seeing enormous changes both on the part of the Society, and the world in general. When your dream is big enough and motivated by compassion, anything is possible.
"Nonviolence means avoiding not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him."
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
- MLK, Jr.
Sorry about the long, drawn out post, I know it can be annoying on a forum. I promise not to make a habit of it.
~Your former fellow slave and still current member of the human family -
63
January 15 WT : Beware of Apostasy
by truthseeker inhi all, this post comes from the e-watchman site, when i get the mags, i will post further.. http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=433.
the following is taken from the watchtower of january 15, 2006, page 23 under the heading 'resist the foremost apostate': .
'because of listening to the devil and not rejecting his lies, the first human pair apostatized.
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Sentient
Thank you all for the warm welcome. AuldSoul- This name was not taken because it knew I was coming.
I see a lot of reason in what you are saying about the corporation seeming to have taken on a life of its own. You are right, it is aptly described as a propaganda machine, almost like a living breathing thing with a life of its own. If you look at it from a pscyhological and sociological perspective, you can begin to understand how this is so. Just from reading some of the posts here I can tell that many of you here have already begun putting the pieces together. The picture is becoming clearer, there is a bright light approaching a dark place. But do remember the corporation is still controlled by individual people, and we all know the GB still sit up top with the proverbial (but legally invisible) reigns in hand. It is very similar to a virus in the nature of its operation upon the minds of damaged men.
jgnat- I'll have to think about that. Are you serious? I can't say that it will be a love-in (not sure what that is exactly) but I may be able to help those of you who have a dream similar to my own and who mean what you say. If you will help me. I will believe in you, and you will believe in me. It is with real belief that things begin to happen. All we need is that first mustard grain, then the mountains will give way.
Rabbit- I admire what you've accomplished, you've learned important lessons that some people never learn their entire lives. With you in their lives, your kids have a chance. Their mother has a chance too.
ozziepost- Okay, I will paste it there at your request. -
22
If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's probably......
by LDH ina duck!!!
the wbts acts like a cult.
it looks and operates like a cult.
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Sentient
I believe that the Witnesses cause serious, real, quantifiable, scientifically and experientially verifiable psychological harm via their process of coercive persuasion and progressive thought reform. In plain english: the hardcore Witness is gradually "brainwashed" without physical force. Some people are more vulnerable to it than others. I believe the best way to help the hardcore members is to understand them and share the right information with them at the right time. I know this because after being a true believer and leaving, I experienced just about every single symptom on this list formulated by the now-deceased formost expert on high-control groups in the world Dr. Margaret Singer. I never spoke to this woman yet she described my mental experience to the minutest detail of accuracy.
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_articles/singer_margaret_postcult.htm
It's not so much the specific doctrines as it is the techniques used to persuade, isolate and control the individual without them even being aware of what is happening to them. These same techinques have been used by other groups time and again, and they are what separate the high-control groups from the less controlling religions or institutions. They are degrees, it is not black and white. But the Witnesses are very near the far end of the spectrum.
Without hesitation I can say that all of the items in the following article clearly apply to the Witnesses:
http://www.freeminds.org/psych/thought_reform.htm
I believe any open-minded mental health professional or other person who interviews enough current and former Witnesses will come to the same conclusion. As a result of the intense indoctrination I received since infancy, I have had to deal with a condition known as Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder...it is known to sometimes be the result of involvement in high-control religous "cults". It is truly like surviving a war and the symptoms can be at least as extreme. Countless other hardcore Witnesses who have left experience the same thing to a greater or lesser degree, but often do not understand what is happening to them. Scroll down to #10 in the following article.
http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/trauma.html
Please share the information in these links in a calm and considerate manner with anyone you may know who is victim of a high-control group like the Witnesses. Help get the word out to mental health professionals, sociologists, the media and the public. As awareness grows change will happen. -
63
January 15 WT : Beware of Apostasy
by truthseeker inhi all, this post comes from the e-watchman site, when i get the mags, i will post further.. http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=433.
the following is taken from the watchtower of january 15, 2006, page 23 under the heading 'resist the foremost apostate': .
'because of listening to the devil and not rejecting his lies, the first human pair apostatized.
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Sentient
Hi all,
The is the first time I've posted in a JW related forum since some years ago when I was an MS, or really made any comments to any former or current members outside of the immediate family. Although this may not be the appropriate subforum for it, I'll explain just a bit of my own history because it relates to my own conclusions as to the topic here at hand.
I find now that in the big picture ex JWs have opinions that cover the entire breadth of a possible spectrum of opinions. All I can do is offer my own current perspective. Having been raised as a JW, I can tell you that I believe I was about as "in" mentally as it is possible to get as recently as a few years ago. I can tell you that I was the very type of person most "beloved" by the organization, the kind who obediently carries out direction without question, who maintains the outward appearance of spirtual accomplishment along with a growing inward hatred of and disbelief in the self, who has no personal life whatsoever outside the congregation. I was one of those ones the back-room frequenters couldn't stand, one who never seemed to make any mistakes, MS by the age of 19, eloquent speaker, on-the-fly substitute talk expert, insanely intelligent, astute WT policy and prophecy explainer/defender, territory card creator and servant, accounts assistant, enthusiastic volunteer for the worst menial tasks of service and special adopted child of and spy for the congregation elders. I would stay up late into the nights studying and praying, begging Jehovah to help me to be faithful and not succumb to the lure of the Satanic conspiracy that surrounded me. I was brother spiritual/useful/slave-of-all, on the fast track to Bethel and elderhood.
Through my own ongoing survival (I'm still alive!) and recovery process, I've come to believe there are certain psychological profiles of people who emerge from the mental trauma of that extremely controlled environment to become the leaders and "pillars of the congregation". I think the key to understanding and effectively dealing with what is without lies in understanding and effectively dealing with what is within. I would posit that most who fit my "need for absolute certainty" profile would have taken their own lives or become permantently entrapped in uncontrolled irrational paranoia, but I believe that I have survived with a semblence of sanity for a reason. And I congratulate all of you like me who also have survived or are even going strong now.
So now I won't tell you what to do, I'll just tell you what I believe. I believe I cannot fight fear with fear. I believe that in order to be of the greatest help to current Witnesses, I must become as much as possible an example of internal control...the polar opposite of the extreme end of the external control model of human interaction so finely demonstrated to me by the GB and their adherants. After all, I was them. They are me. Not long ago I would have defended their doctrines to the death just as they might now. Some of you may disagree, but at the deepest level, I do not believe there are evil people, only more or less damaged people.
So when the GB, or other Witnesses, go on fearing me and calling me apostate as in this article, I will not try to save them by force or get back at them, but calmly speak my mind and offer them information that I believe will help them when the time is right. I will not ignore or keep silent about the hurt I've experienced or the judgment, labelling and abuse they still promote, but if I am to bring about change I must respect that they are human like me. Life is a journey and we are in it together, even those who have hurt me and others and still don't acknowledge it. I will strive, in my life, to be an example of nonjudgment and unconditional love...what I needed most but never had until I left the organization.
It is real love and acceptance that WILL change not only the Witnesses but the world (thank God for the internet). It comes through awareness and understanding of the dynamics of fear, and through an internal choice of a kind which I still find hard to explain. As I understand it now, *all lasting positive change is internally motived*. What is it that gives a hardcore Witness the incentive to face that which they have feared most? I believe even the most afraid and dishonest of people can become honest and can learn what real love is about. A single choice-respecting act of true love and compassion can result in a cascade of understanding more powerful than the biggest class-action law suit (though law suits can help). I think soon we will be seeing enormous changes both on the part of the Society, and the world in general. When your dream is big enough and motivated by compassion, anything is possible.
"Nonviolence means avoiding not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him."
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
- MLK, Jr.
Sorry about the long, drawn out post, I know it can be annoying on a forum. I promise not to make a habit of it.
~Your former fellow slave and still current member of the human family