Hey Matt,
In my experience, they showed me a place in the Old Testament where proskuneo was used on another man, to show that it must be obeisance. However, what they showed me was from a English translation of a Hebrew translation of a Greek translation that was translated from Hebrew.
I didn't see it as very reliable.
However, they were unable to show me ANYWHERE in the NEW TESTAMENT where proskuneo was used for a man.
However, I would simply make the point that it is academically safer in any situation to base your translation from the RULE, NOT the EXCEPTION. You can't pick and choose where you want to translate the word obeisance and where you want to translate it as worship. If we are consistent with our translation, we end up seeing that Jesus is worshipped by people and that God commands his angels to worship him.
You'll also note that a few times, people did proskuneo unto Peter and Paul and Angels where they all told them to STOP! because they were only Angels and men. And it would be a sin to do so. However, Jesus never refused. You could ask were people attempting to worship Peter, Paul and the angels? or were they just paying obeisance to them.
Be aware, they will try to find any exception to support their translation and understanding of the Bible no matter how much of a stetch and no matter how obscure. You can just tell them you aren't comfortable basing your faith on the EXCEPTION to the RULE.
I hope this helps.
Kristofer
JoinedPosts by Kristofer
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The word "worship"
by Matt_fs inhey folks,.
im new to the forum, although i have been here reading it for the last few months.
ill give you a breif history of myself before i go on to asking my question.
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Kristofer
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has humanity the intelligence to transcend love?
by the dreamer dreaming ini suspect it is fairly rare for two people to fall "in love" with each other at the same time... it seems to me
that many males will fall in love with just about any female that vaguely says anything approaching yes to their advances
and that they are not nearly as descriminating as females as to who they will have sex with... i could be wrong of course ...
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Kristofer
My two cents:
Love is an action, not a feeling. Love is what you do or what someone does to you, not what you feel from that action. You may feel great happiness, contentment, euphoria...But if you ask someone, "How do you feel right now?" I don't think "I feel love" is an answer that makes much sense.
I can feel good, I can feel humbled, or so fortunate.
When you love someone...you care for them in a selfless way...but again..it's an action. Wanting their happiness above your own or even at your own expense. -
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Why is truth is so hard to find in Bible
by The Dragon ini have been studing it for years looking for answers....yet for every answer i find there is a counter to it.
the words themselves are twisted by leaders/teachers to fit their personal opinions and adgendas, as well as twisted by trying to rely on our own reasoning to understand them.. a good example would be the way our current system of laws work.. if the supreme court writes a law into the book..say for example.."evil" is anyone who does this....... it is then turned over to a bunch of undereducated enforcers to interpert and judge others they feel are "evil".
they are allowed to accuse and shoot first asking questions later.
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Kristofer
i think sometimes we may be over analyzing. I think deep inside us, we know truth and we know good and we know evil. I think to know what good is, is to know what love is. Complete selflessness. the opposite of love...hate and selfishness I think would be the path toward evil. I think it's ridiculous to want a book that spells out doctrine to you because not everything is so black and white. I think to look for this, is to look for burden. I think the Bible tells us essentially that we need to love. Love God and love each other and love ourselves. Yet being imperfect, we fail at this time and time again....But if we believe that the Lord suffered and died for our imperfections, we can be made perfect by accepting the sacrifice he has made.
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The Next Top Apostate!
by Swan inmouthy is one of the coolest people on this board.
she has also been out of the jws far longer than most of us.. but with mouthy leaving, who will be our next top apostate?
duties: keep the seat warm until mouthy comes back.
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Kristofer
what happened to stillajwelder..or stillaexjwelder..or something like that...???????? I loved those posts.
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Should you believe in the Trinity?
by 1ofhissheep inhey, i am new to this site and looking into the jw faith and watchtower.
i have currently been studying what was written in the "should you believe in the trinity?
" publication found at watchtower.org .
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Kristofer
here is a previous thread on the topic
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/107582/1.ashx -
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Should you believe in the Trinity?
by 1ofhissheep inhey, i am new to this site and looking into the jw faith and watchtower.
i have currently been studying what was written in the "should you believe in the trinity?
" publication found at watchtower.org .
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Kristofer
I would check out these two links. They are GREAT resources
http://home.comcast.net/~neirr/believeintrinity.htm
there is another that I have but I can't find a link to by Gospel Defense Ministries. They have a whole essay on the Trinity Brochure. It shows how they leave important sections of their quotations out of the Encyclopedia's they cite.
Anyone have that? I got it from JWD before. -
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What Bible do you like?
by Tristram inhaving read nothing but the nwt all my life, i am interested in getting a couple other translations to see their interpretations of the scriptures.
i really don't have any idea where to start.
i have heard the niv has a distinctly "conservative evangelical" bent which doesn't really interest me, but what translations have you used that you like?
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Kristofer
I use the New Geneva Study Bible.. I really like it. It is user friendly, has introductions to each book about the time written, interpretive difficulties, it has cross references, and different theological opinions as footnotes if you wish to get some insight.
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Marlan Wayans father is a JW
by Kristofer injust heard his interview on conan o'brien... .
his father was a jw..mother was a baptist.. .
thought it was hilarious...his dad told him it would explode if he touched it>
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Kristofer
just heard his interview on Conan O'Brien...
His father was a JW..mother was a Baptist..
Thought it was hilarious...his dad told him IT would explode if he touched it> -
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Goodbye all
by mouthy inyes i am quitting the forum ,,, i cant keep up with you all.
i cant remember whos who, so very happy that we have many many new ones,,,, .
let me tell you i love you all ...i have been so respected by you all & shown much unconditional love..... i know many have my home e-mail..... so if any want to - they know what to do.. i have been on here a long time.... gus,gus ( my wonderful daughter still posts on occasions.
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Kristofer
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo DON'T GO!!!!!!! WHY?????????