Posts by reneeisorym

50

Any Presbyterian here?

by onemore in

jw
friends

i just have a few question.....

One thing that impresses me about Calvinists, is that they are not apocalyptic, and they find real value in this life. They are very dedicated to serving Christ's interests on Earth, today. Often, this takes the form of doing good for others, by means of education and charity.

A lot of people preach the gospel as "You better straighten up because the world is going to end" when it's supposed to be: "We are sinners and deserve to be punished. Good news is Jesus died to pay the penalty for those sins so that you can enter into heaven."

Reminds me of Galations 1: 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Also, we are usually believe in covenant and post millineal theology where the apocalyptic denominations believe in dispensationalism - That means that where people like JWs believe in a 1st and 2nd fulfillment of the prophesies, we believe it was prophesied and fulfilled .. period. No 2nd fulfillment. We believe we are in the millineum now and just waiting for the end/2nd coming. There isn't as much debating about the mark of the beast and so forth. (And I'm totally not an expert on this subject - If I have a detail messed up, don't slaughter me!)

50

Any Presbyterian here?

by onemore in

jw
friends

i just have a few question.....

reneeisorym

Open theism according to wiki:

Practically, open theism makes the case for a personal God who is open to influence through the prayers, decisions, and actions of people. Although many specific outcomes of the future are unknowable, God's foreknowledge of the future includes that which is determined as time progresses often in light of free decisions that have been made and what has been sociologically determined. So God knows everything that has been determined as well as what has not yet been determined but remains open. As such, God is able to anticipate the future, yet remains fluid to respond and react to prayer and decisions made either contrary or advantageous to God's plan or presuppositions.

50

Any Presbyterian here?

by onemore in

jw
friends

i just have a few question.....

reneeisorym

"If he chose to let someone be born knowing what they would decide, what's the difference??!"

That's called open theism and it's definately not reformed theology.

Reformers believe God decrees the future.

True. I do not believe the above. It just seems to me that the results are the same even if you do believe that.

Either God makes a person with a set of looks, personality, set of parents, and location and lets them have free will to decide already knowing what they will decide. Quite frankly - those factors above will have a profound effect on their decision.

OR God makes a person with their eternal fate already predestined.

Reguardless it seems that God is in control of our destiny.

I guess you could believe like JWs that God could know the future but he chooses not to. The Bible just doesn't teach that.

I always end up at the same place no matter what.

50

Any Presbyterian here?

by onemore in

jw
friends

i just have a few question.....

reneeisorym

How can you really love somebody who god decided to reject and torment for eternity even before they were conceived?

And how can Arminians love someone who outright refuses to believe? I can't be angry at people who are only a product of their upbringing!

A lot of times they refuse to believe because of life experiences, personality traits, location, or family. How is it fair that they won't end up being believers because of something they had no control over? We can all agree (if Christian) that God created us knowing our eventual fate. We all believe God can tell the future. If he chose to let someone be born knowing what they would decide, what's the difference??!

50

Any Presbyterian here?

by onemore in

jw
friends

i just have a few question.....

reneeisorym

reneelsorym --- ok, presbyterians are reformed theologians but do not believe any of the calvinism? seems where i live their churches are few and far between. you indicate they are big into theology --- like that part.

So Catholics were first, then the reformers were reformers because they broke away from the Catholic church. The reformation (1517) was led by Martin Luther who believed in what later became called Calvinism. Arminians (non Calvinist Protestants) broke away from there in 1610.

Presbyterians are Calvinists. They are big into theology.

50

Any Presbyterian here?

by onemore in

jw
friends

i just have a few question.....

reneeisorym

If I were a Calivnist, I would feel so very special. While others are going to Hell, through no effort of my own, I'm going to Heaven. It would be like winning the lottery.

I felt more special when I was a JW and thought I was so smart to be in God's one true organization.

50

Any Presbyterian here?

by onemore in

jw
friends

i just have a few question.....

reneeisorym

The ones who really take it seriously are among the most miserable, sour faced, unhappy, judgemental, disapproving people you could meet.

That has been the complete opposite from my experience. Calvinism is made to make you humble. It means you believe you have no reason to boast because it wasn't anything you did to earn God's favor, but everything HE did.

Armineans are the arrogant ones who think they are so smart they figured it out.

50

Any Presbyterian here?

by onemore in

jw
friends

i just have a few question.....

reneeisorym

Infant baptism doesn't seem very "biblical" to me though.

I can see both sides, and I'm still not sure.

50

Any Presbyterian here?

by onemore in

jw
friends

i just have a few question.....

reneeisorym

Renee, off topic, but what does the isorym mean in your username?

Syl

I played computer games when I was younger (7 years ago I quit .. ). My name was always Orym in those games. I guess I should think of a new one now. But you guys wouldn't know who I was!

50

Any Presbyterian here?

by onemore in

jw
friends

i just have a few question.....

reneeisorym

It all amounts to the same thing no matter if you embrace Calvinism or not.

If you don't believe in it, you essentially say this:

God made each of us with this certain personality, sinful nature, these parents (who may be anywhere from mean like rattlesnakes or beautiful, warm, loving couple), and this location. Some people have more of a chance at believing because they were born from Christian parents in a loving home in the Bible belt. Others were born products of rape in wartorn, poverty stricken, Muslim northern Africa and their chances of hearing the gospel is slim to none. It's not really fair that some people get to hear about God's grace and others do not. Sometimes God does miracles to the people born in China and they find a Bible in the street and come to believe. Those are sweet stories, but you don't believe in Calvinism, you have to ask why he does these miracles to some and not for others.
Also, God made me with this personality that questions everything, so I left the JWs. Why did I get this personality, and some of my dear family members did not? It's not fair.

If you do believe in Calvinism, you just believe that some are chosen and some are not. It's not fair, but it's not exactly fair reguardless. Unless you believe that all are going to heaven, it's not fair.

To me, this isn't a big deal. No matter what you believe, factors you do not control determine your fate.

All that matters is that you believe that grace and not works get you eternal life. JWs are the ones that have it wall wrong! I always thought I had to go to meetings, service, bible study, etc. to get in.