Posts by scout575

3

"A Clinic for Abuse Patients."

by scout575 in

"the main purpose of this site is to help the person who has left or is leaving christianity to deal with the damage done by christianity in a healthy and useful way.

the extrmemity of the damage done to people is so great and common-place that a caring response is very needed.

this site is like a clinic for abuse patients.".

scout575

"The main purpose of this site is to help the person who has left or is leaving Christianity to deal with the damage done by Christianity in a healthy and useful way. The extrmemity of the damage done to people is so great and common-place that a caring response is very needed. This site is like a clinic for abuse patients."

"Sometimes the abuse was directly personal, such as sexual abuse at the hands of a pastor or Christian parents. Other times the very doctrines and practices of Christianity themselves were the source of the abuse."

The above is a quote from the 'forum guidelines' of one of the many message boards for ex-Christians. What is it about the "doctrines and practices of Christianity" that brings so much harm to so many of its adherents?

30

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-26-06 WT Study (Gathering)

by blondie in

gathering things in heaven and things on earth.

the christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth.

" (1 corinthians 10:16) in what way do those partaking of the wine `share in the blood of the christ'?

scout575

Honesty: Thanks for your address. If I didn't know better I'd be tempted to think that you doubt my claim of having disassociated myself last September. I will decline your offer of being pen-pals with you, but I have met-up with another ex-JW who uses this site, and if you would like to ask her for confirmation that I am really disassociated, I'd be happy to send you her username, so that you can pm her.

30

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-26-06 WT Study (Gathering)

by blondie in

gathering things in heaven and things on earth.

the christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth.

" (1 corinthians 10:16) in what way do those partaking of the wine `share in the blood of the christ'?

scout575

Uninformed: If you return to my earlier posting you will notice that I say: "Including kingdom halls." I'm happy to be able to reassure you that I disassociated myself from JWs last September, because I could no longer accept the Bible's claim of its being "inspired of god". Of course, I'm not really claiming that the above Scriptures are NEVER read at any Christian meetings, I'm just pointing out how those Scriptures tend to be ( for obvious reasons ) 'swept under the carpet'.

9

Scriptures You Will Not Hear Read at the 3 -26 -06 Church Sermon.

by scout575 in

the following words are all attributed to jesus, and said to 'wayward' christians:.

"repent; or else i will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the long sword of my mouth.

' ( rev 2:16 ).

scout575

Wombat: Believe it or not, but, I too 'love much of what Jesus ( is said ) to have taught'.

You say that you don't think it is fair to attribute the words of the above texts to Jesus. Do you think it is fair to attribute the following words from Revelation, to Jesus?:

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." ( Rev 2:7b )

"Because thou hast kept the word of my my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which will come upon all the world." ( Rev 3:10 )

"Behold I stand at the door and knock; If any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come into him, and will sup with him, and he with me." ( Rev 3:20 )

My reason for quoting these 'nice' words, attributed to Jesus, is that they demonstrate how the Bible contains many texts that portray Jesus ( and Jehovah ) as being a VERY appealing character, WHILST ALSO ( even within the same book of the Bible ) containing many other texts that portray Jesus ( and Jehovah ) as a VERY UNappealing character.

As Gumby points out, this tension between 'nice' Jesus, and 'nasty' Jesus, is not just to be found within the book of Revelation. It is also to be found within the other books of the NT.

9

Scriptures You Will Not Hear Read at the 3 -26 -06 Church Sermon.

by scout575 in

the following words are all attributed to jesus, and said to 'wayward' christians:.

"repent; or else i will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the long sword of my mouth.

' ( rev 2:16 ).

scout575

The following words are all attributed to Jesus, and said to 'wayward' Christians:

"Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will FIGHT AGAINST them with the LONG SWORD of my mouth.' ( Rev 2:16 )

"And I will KILL HER CHILDREN WITH DEATH; and all the churches shall know that I am he who searches the reins and the hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." ( Rev 2:23 )

"So then because thou art lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will SPUE THEE OUT OF MY MOUTH." ( Rev 3:16 )

30

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-26-06 WT Study (Gathering)

by blondie in

gathering things in heaven and things on earth.

the christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth.

" (1 corinthians 10:16) in what way do those partaking of the wine `share in the blood of the christ'?

scout575

Blondie: Have you ever considered doing a weekly article entitled: 'Scriptures you are unlikely to hear read at chuch this Sunday' ( including kingdom halls )? If you are considering it, here are a few Scriptures that you might like to include:

1 - "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and I will fight against thee with the long sword of my mouth." ( Rev 2:16 ) Jesus' sinister threat to 'wayward' Christians at Pergamos.

2 - "And I will kill her children with death." ( Rev 2:23 ) Jesus intentions regarding the 'children' of 'that woman Jezebel' in the Thyatira congragation ( Rev 2:20 ).

3 - "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." ( Rev 3:16 - Don't you just love Jesus' vocabulary? ) Jesus horrible threat to 'backsliding' Christians at Laodicea.

As you have a great capacity for identifying points from the Watchtower that you find distasteful, I'm sure you would find countless points from the Bible that you would find even more distasteful. I think there is tremendous mileage in this idea. The above Scriptures were found in just 2 chapters of the NT, which is supposed to be much 'nicer' than the OT. Just think of the 'gems' that you could find in the OT!

17

"Turned aside after Satan."?

by scout575 in

the nt contains several references to christians abandoning christianity.

they are referred to as having "turned aside after satan" ( 1 tim 5:15 ), as being like "the dog that is turned to his own vomit.

" ( 2 peter 2:22 ), as being the "enemies of the cross of christ" ( php 3:18 ), and as being "not of us" ( 1 john 2:19 ).

scout575

Star Moore: You imply that I hadn't considered the context in quoting the above Bible texts, and that those described at 1 Tim 5:15; Php 3:18 and 2 Peter 2:22 were still Christians. Please be assured that I did consider the context of those verses. Lets look at those texts again, one by one:

1 Tim 5:15: "Some are already turned aside after Satan." Were the people described by this verse really still Christians? Aren't Christians supposed to be 'turned aside after' Jesus, rather than Satan? Can someone still be called a Christian if they have "turned aside after Satan"?

Php 3:18: "They are the enemies of the cross of Christ." Verse 19 says of them: "Their end is destruction, whose god is their belly." Can someone still be regarded as a Christian if "they are an enemy of the cross of Christ."? If their "end is destruction"? If their god is their belly"?

2 Peter 2:22: "The dog is turned to his own vomit." The verse goes on to say: "And the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." Can someone who is still a Christian be compared to a 'dog turning to his vomit'? Or a 'sow wallowing in the mire'?

Whilst it can't be said for certain whether the people described in the above verses had stopped going to Christian meetings, it is quite clear that they had abandoned Christianity 'in their hearts'. Many posters on JWD still go to the kingdom hall, but its clear from their comments that they have abandoned JWs 'in their hearts'.

Whilst, as you say, it is good to consider the context of Bible texts that are quoted, its quite clear that gospel writers had no such qualms. Consider Matthew 2:15. The writer quotes an extract from Hosea 11:1, saying: "Out of Egypt have I called my son." Despite the fact that the extract is written in the past tense: " HAVE I CALLED" rather than: WILL I CALL, Matthew applies it as a prophecy, claiming that it was fulfilled by Jesus. Looking at the context of Hosea 11:1, we notice that Hosea was referring to the Israelite exodus from Egypt, something that happened hundreds of years before Jesus was born. He certainly was not prophesying anything to do with Jesus. What a glaring case of quoting Scripture out of context.

17

"Turned aside after Satan."?

by scout575 in

the nt contains several references to christians abandoning christianity.

they are referred to as having "turned aside after satan" ( 1 tim 5:15 ), as being like "the dog that is turned to his own vomit.

" ( 2 peter 2:22 ), as being the "enemies of the cross of christ" ( php 3:18 ), and as being "not of us" ( 1 john 2:19 ).

scout575

jgnat: The trouble is the 'varied landscape' of Christianity brings alot of misery to many ( but not all ) of those who embrace it. We all know of the trauma that many ( but not all ) of JWs have experienced with that particular brand of Christianity, and the same is true of the other forms of Christianity. I've looked at some of the many message boards for ex-Christians, and the testimonies are just as hair-raising as the testimonies on JWD.

For example: "They promise you "joy unspeakable and full of glory" - it doesn't happen...the whole thing is a sham."

"I spent less than 10 years of my life as a born again Christian. I am angry at myself for succumbing to such ignorance."

"It is the testimonies of those of us that have walked away from the insanity that should be shouted from the rooftops."

"All the abuses and absurdities I witnessed in the Evangelical church."

"Deep disgust that I was naive enough to be bamboozled by religious nonsense for so long."

"I am furious that I was lied to for years."

"Stunned at how bitter and angry I am"

"I am supposed to be saved but I'm numb...I just want to breathe and the weight is crushing me."

"All of my abuse issues with Christianity."

"All the emotional and spiritual abuse I suffered."

"Sometimes it hurts all the time."

"Another part of me was always terrified that something bad would happen to me-that god would punish me."

"It represented prison."

"Chained and shackled."

"Could it get any worse?"

I could provide countless more quotes from people who have walked away from Christianity feeling extremely damaged and let down by it. Of course, as the saying goes: One man's meat is another man's poison." Just as there are many JWs who find the JW life just fine, so there are many Christians who find the Christian life just fine. What the above testimonies reveal though, is that Christianity is very damaging to many, many Christians. How ironic that that should be the case in a religion that is supposed to have god as its originator and backer.

17

"Turned aside after Satan."?

by scout575 in

the nt contains several references to christians abandoning christianity.

they are referred to as having "turned aside after satan" ( 1 tim 5:15 ), as being like "the dog that is turned to his own vomit.

" ( 2 peter 2:22 ), as being the "enemies of the cross of christ" ( php 3:18 ), and as being "not of us" ( 1 john 2:19 ).

scout575

Narkissos: I am inclined to agree with you about the idea of Christianity having, very early on, split into various factions. You refer to the various schisms 'condemning' eachother. I wonder how this disunity and antagonism fits in with the claim that Christianity is originated and sustained by god, who is described as "not the author of confusion" ( 1 Cor 14:33 )? I wonder how it fits in with Jesus' prayer that his followers would all "be ONE"? ( John 17:21 ) Could Christianity be just another man-made religion?

17

"Turned aside after Satan."?

by scout575 in

the nt contains several references to christians abandoning christianity.

they are referred to as having "turned aside after satan" ( 1 tim 5:15 ), as being like "the dog that is turned to his own vomit.

" ( 2 peter 2:22 ), as being the "enemies of the cross of christ" ( php 3:18 ), and as being "not of us" ( 1 john 2:19 ).

scout575

Sad emo: I agree, particularely if I had been a Christian living at the close of the 1st century, over 60 years after Jesus prophesied that his return would come within the lifetime of his listeners. At Luke 9: 27, he said: "But I tell you of a TRUTH, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God."

When I post on JWD I often see that banner advert for a book ( the 'correct words of TRUTH book' ) criticising JWs for the 1925 fiasco. Whilst, of course, JWs, were wrong for thinking that the Bible pointed to the year 1925 as the year when the 'end' would come, I wonder if that book criticises Jesus for making such a spectacularly false propecy at Luke 9:27?

I notice that whilst many posters on this site also criticse JWs ( rightly ) for their 'false prophecies' ( really just misinterpretations of the Bible and its chronology, rather than prophecies in the conventional sense of the word ) I have yet to see one word of criticism for Jesus' false prophecy at Luke 9:27 and Matthew 16:28. Is it like the 'elephant in the front room'? We know that Jesus' prophecy didn't come true, but we just don't like to talk about it?