Posts by scout575

53

Some scripture you will hear on 21 May at very many churches

by A Paduan in

i no longer call you slaves,.

because a slave does not know what his master is doing.. i have called you friends,.

because i have told you everything i have heard from my father.. it was not you who chose me, but i who chose you.

scout575

Sad emo: You raised the question that the stoning of the man found working on the sabbath happened BEFORE there was a specific penalty given for this 'crime' ( Numbers 15:32-36 ). True. You then say that there may have been a 'progressive revelation', whereby when a written law was given, the punishment for 'sabbath breaking' might have been reduced in severity to being, 'put outside the camp', rather than the stoning that God decreed at Numbers 15:36.

At Leviticus 24:10-16, we read of a case where someone "blasphemed" the name of the Lord' ( verse 11 ). Here, as in the above case of sabbath violation, no specifc punishment had so far been decreed by God. Therefore the Israelites wanted God to reveal to them what punishment to inflict on the 'blasphemer'. God's answer was that the offender should be stoned ( verse 14 ). Was this a 'one off'? Was there a 'progressive revelation' whereby when the written law arrived, the punishment for blasphemy was reduced to being 'put outside the camp'? No. At verse 16, God says: "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be PUT TO DEATH, and all the congregation shall certainly STONE HIM, as well THE STRANGER, as he that is BORN IN THE LAND, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall he be PUT TO DEATH."

Quite clearly, God here decrees that the punishment for blasphemy will CONTINUE to be execution by stoning, for 'stranger' aswell as native born Israelite. There was NO 'progressive revelation' here, no 'softening' of the punishment from stoning, to being 'put outside the camp. Notice too that here AGAIN the expression, "put to death", means execution ( stoning ) and not being 'put outside the camp'. When the expression "put to death" appears at Exodus 31:15, in connection with 'sabbath breaking', why should its meaning become, not execution', but being 'put outside the camp'?

Are you trying to find a 'nicer' God in the Bible, than the one that is actually there?

24

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 21-05-06 Church Sermon.

by scout575 in

"but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily i say unto you, ye shall not have gone over the cities of israel till the son of man be come.

" ( matthew 10:23 ).

"for the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

scout575

A Paduan: I wonder what kind of time lapse there was between Matthew 16:28, and the alleged post-resurrection encounters? A year at the most, maybe? It strikes me as bizarre to foretell something so soon in the future, by saying: "There be SOME standing here, which SHALL NOT TASTE OF DEATH, till they see the SON of man coming in his kingdom." Jesus is saying that only SOME of his audience would still be alive when he "comes in his kingdom". The implication of this is that MANY of them would have died out before that time arrives. Does this not indicate to you that Jesus was anticipating that much more than one year would elapse before he would 'come in his kingdom'?

53

Some scripture you will hear on 21 May at very many churches

by A Paduan in

i no longer call you slaves,.

because a slave does not know what his master is doing.. i have called you friends,.

because i have told you everything i have heard from my father.. it was not you who chose me, but i who chose you.

scout575

Judas 1: John 15:6 is part of a parable comparing 'unfruitful' Christians to unfruitful vine branches. The unfruitful branches of the literal vine are: "withered", 'gathered up', 'cast into the fire" and "burned". Is that a good or a bad outcome for the literal branch?

53

Some scripture you will hear on 21 May at very many churches

by A Paduan in

i no longer call you slaves,.

because a slave does not know what his master is doing.. i have called you friends,.

because i have told you everything i have heard from my father.. it was not you who chose me, but i who chose you.

scout575

Sad emo: At Deuteronomy 17:1-7 the punishment for idolatry is discussed. In verse 6, it says: "At the mouth of two witnesses or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be PUT TO DEATH." This is exactly the same expression used at Exodus 31:15 where it is the punishment stipulated for sabbath violation. You say that being "put to death" means being put outside the camp ( leading to eventual death ). However, what does the context of Deuteronomy 17:6 indicate is the meaning of the expression "put to death"? Verse 5 says: "Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto the gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt STONE THEM WITH STONES, TILL THEY DIE." Clearly, being "put to death" means being EXECUTED, and not being 'put outside the camp'.

If you were a lawgiver who wanted to devise a punishment whereby a person was to be put outside the camp, would you express it as, 'put to death' ( Exodus 31:15 ), or would you express it as, "put outside the camp'? I agree that if an Israelite in the wilderness were to be put outside the camp it probably would result in his death ( it seems to me, a death far more lingering and gruesome than execution ), but what about when the Israelites got to the promised land? Would being 'put outside the camp' then result in the person ending up dead? If not, would the expression,'put to death' then resume its regular meaning of, 'put to death' as in execution?

7

"An Outcast"

by scout575 in

"i was astonished that i had blindly let these people put the ideas in my head that god and the bible were, "absolute truth".

i began doing some thinking on my own and my closest family and friends began telling me that i was "backslidden".

i have become an outcast amongst people who said that they would always love me and who preach never ending forgiveness.

scout575

"I was astonished that I had blindly let these people put the ideas in my head that God and the Bible were, "absolute truth". I began doing some thinking on my own and my closest family and friends began telling me that I was "backslidden". I have become an outcast amongst people who said that they would always love me and who preach never ending forgiveness. I have been hurt by these people who still mean so much to me, but over all I am much happier of the person I have become. I am no longer narrow-minded, judgmental, or unaccepting of people."

This quote was taken from: losingmyreligion.com/letters/exchristianletters.htm. If you are a JW 'lurker' who is thinking about joining a church that believes that the Bible is "absolute truth", please check out this website to get some ex-Christian perspectives on Christianity.

24

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 21-05-06 Church Sermon.

by scout575 in

"but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily i say unto you, ye shall not have gone over the cities of israel till the son of man be come.

" ( matthew 10:23 ).

"for the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

scout575

A Paduan: Matthew 16:28 reads: "Verily I say unto you, There be SOME standing here, which shall NOT TASTE OF DEATH, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." The passage of time between when Jesus said these words, and his post-resurruection appearances to his apostles was brief. Do you think that the way Jesus words his prophecy fits in with such a near-term fulfillment?

53

Some scripture you will hear on 21 May at very many churches

by A Paduan in

i no longer call you slaves,.

because a slave does not know what his master is doing.. i have called you friends,.

because i have told you everything i have heard from my father.. it was not you who chose me, but i who chose you.

scout575

A Paduan: When the story at Acts 5:5 says of Ananais: "( He ) Fell down and GAVE UP THE GHOST", its referring to his LITERAL death. When Jesus was killed, the account at Luke 23: 46, says: " He GAVE UP THE GHOST." Clearly, both Jesus AND Ananias are described as LITERALLY dying.

When Acts 5:6 says of Ananias: "And the young men arose, WOUND HIM UP, and carried him out", its referring to his being LITERALLY dead. When Jesus was killed, the account at John 19:40, says: "Then took they the body, and WOUND it in linen clothes". Clearly, both Jesus AND Ananias LITERALLY died.

When Acts 5:10, says of Sapphira: "Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in and found her DEAD", its referring to LITERAL death. The account at Mark 15:44,45 says regarding Jesus: "And Pilate marvelled if he were already DEAD: and calling unto him the centurian, he asked him whether he had been any while DEAD. And when he KNEW OF IT, he gave the body to Joseph." Clearly, both Jesus AND Sapphira were LITERALLY dead.

When Acts 5: 6, says of Ananias: "And the young men arose, wound him up and carried him out and BURIED him", its referring to a LITERAL burial. The account at John 19:40, says of Jesus: "Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to BURY." Clearly, both Jesus AND Ananias were LITERALLY BURIED."

Whilst the Ananias and Sapphira story doesn't explicitly say that they were killed by heaven, the implication is undeniable. To attribute the deaths of these two people to natural causes, or to say that their deaths and burials are not to be taken literally, is to read into the account, things that simply aren't there.

24

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 21-05-06 Church Sermon.

by scout575 in

"but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily i say unto you, ye shall not have gone over the cities of israel till the son of man be come.

" ( matthew 10:23 ).

"for the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

scout575

A Paduan: Are you saying that you think Matthew 16:28 has multiple fulfillments, or do you think that Jesus "coming in his kingdom" is referring solely to his "coming" to his apostles after his resurrection?

53

Some scripture you will hear on 21 May at very many churches

by A Paduan in

i no longer call you slaves,.

because a slave does not know what his master is doing.. i have called you friends,.

because i have told you everything i have heard from my father.. it was not you who chose me, but i who chose you.

scout575

Sad emo; The text at Exodus 31:14 couldn't be clearer. It says: "Surely PUT TO DEATH." What more would you like it to say? When Moses found the man who was working on the sabbath, was he expelled from the camp, or was he executed? Notice what Numbers 15:36 says happened to him: "And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and STONED HIM with stones, and he DIED; as the Lord commanded Moses."

53

Some scripture you will hear on 21 May at very many churches

by A Paduan in

i no longer call you slaves,.

because a slave does not know what his master is doing.. i have called you friends,.

because i have told you everything i have heard from my father.. it was not you who chose me, but i who chose you.

scout575

Sad emo: You say that to be 'cut off', in Israelite terms, is referring to being excluded from the camp, rather than it being a reference to capital punishment. However, at Exodus 31:14, it says: "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you; every one that defileth it shall be PUT TO DEATH; for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be CUT OFF from among his people." Clearly, being "cut off" means the same thing as being "put to death". See also Leviticus 23:29,30.