DakotaRed

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Posts by DakotaRed

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  10

  Bush & Blair: Endless love

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. humour

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  let's lighten the mood a little.. this is very clever and very funny.. http://w1.318.telia.com/~u31815086/readmylips_blush.mov

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  DakotaRed

  Uh, Simon, perhaps you missed this?

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/22/48886/1.ashx
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  367

  1,2,3,4 We Don't Want This Bloody War

  by Robdar in

  1. social
  2. current

  i went to my first peace rally and march tonight.

  it was incredible.

  at one time there were probably 350 of us all joined in solidarity.

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  DakotaRed

  BTW, nobody has turned against our men and women in uniform.

  Robyn, that's not quite accurate. While the majority of those opposed to the current action here say they support the troops, a couple have stated they deserve no support whatsoever and one even stated F*** the soldiers. It pleases me to see these couple are not representative of the majority of those opposed.

  After Vietnam, not only were we spit on when coming home, both physically and emotionally, some even went so far to see some vets missing limbs and tell them to their faces that it was too bad they didn't die there, that they should have for going. The vilification of the Vietnam Veteran was totally uncalled for and in most cases, not even true. The myths about us still abound and many don't care for the truth, preferring the myth instead. I'm glad those opposed to the war are making strides this time to not take it out on the individual members of the Armed Services this time. Just as it is unfair to label all those opposed to the war as "commie bastards," it is equally unfair to label all those who support it as "warmongers," "idiots," "morons," "baby killers," and such.
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  47

  Will this war in Iraq, damage friendships here?

  by WildTurkey in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  what do you think.

  will this war in iraq, damage friendships here?

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  DakotaRed

  If people are really friends, I doubt a disagreement over this will effect that friendship. However, for those that already don't care much for each other, it may be used to broaden their divide. Regardless, we all have our opinions and our rights to them and should remember that. Disagreeing with someone is not an insult worthy of calling the other names over.
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  15

  Rachel Corrie - An Inspiring Story

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  invincible.

  we will be invincible .

  we will be invincible.

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  DakotaRed

  She could have far better helped her cause by staying alive.

  Which would have been nicely accomplished by the bulldozer backing off...

  Believe it or not, it would have been easier for her to simply step out of the way, as the photographer running all around snapping the pictures did. With all the claims of how they were yelling at the operator to stop, who was yelling at her to get out of the way?
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  367

  1,2,3,4 We Don't Want This Bloody War

  by Robdar in

  1. social
  2. current

  i went to my first peace rally and march tonight.

  it was incredible.

  at one time there were probably 350 of us all joined in solidarity.

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  DakotaRed

  I hope you don't think I was making a joke at the expense of the Vietnam veterans and POW's. I personally would not find it hilarious to be called a commie bastard.

  No Seven, I didn't see your comments as joking about the veterans. I just thought I would supply a few facts about her and how veterans feel about such high profile people protesting them. In her case, she went well beyond simple peaceful protest and in my opinion, committed outright treason. We may never know exactly why she wasn't charged with such and prosecuted, but the theories abound.

  The phrase "commie bastard" has been so over used, it isn't funny at all. Simply following your conscience and speaking out against what you believe to be wrong does not qulaify one as a "commie bastard." At least, to me. We all have values and a conscience and must be true to them, no matter what they are, provided, it is done within the law. To me, "civil disobediance" is just a sanitized term for "we don't have to follow the law and should be allowed not too." If both sides practiced that, we would have a war here in the streets too.

  Btw, I never read about there being any big nationally televised celebrations, parades and parties when you came home. It seemed as if everyone just wanted to forget about it and not deal with it. Well, I'd like to thank you now for going over there and giving your all for your country. Whether or not you believed in what you were doing, I don't know. But at least you didn't run away. {{{{{{Dakota Red}}}}}} Thanks and welcome home.

  Very True. The first public welcome home we received was from Ronald Reagan at his first inauguration, close to 8 years after we ended our involvement there. As for not running away, I have to admit, the thought did cross my mind. But in the end, my conscience won out and instead of allowing myself to be drafted, I enlisted. I will always regret that the government gave in to a misled public and we abandoned those people in South Vietnam and let the region fall to communism, but to speak more of that would hijack Robyns thread.

  As you may have noticed, I am a bit outspoken about this matter and would like for all who think they need to protest to consider how the protests are received by the troops. Then, if you still feel the need to protest, do it in a manner that remains legal and safe for both sides. Those that turn it into a violent demonstration are no better than the enemy to me, and deserve to be dealt with severely. They end up hurting the cause and giving all from the protest a black eye.

  Thank you for the welcome home, Seven. Even at a late date, we appreciate hearing it.
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  33

  "Shock and awe" . . . my butt

  by teejay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  that phrase -- along with "weapons of mass destruction" -- is a term that i hope soon passes out of popular use.

  i wonder who coined that phrase: "shock and awe.

  " i'm sure they are terribly proud of themselves... the idiots.

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  DakotaRed

  They keep saying Shock and Awe, way too much, it's getting rather irritating, at least they should have come up with something more creative.

  Charlie, sit down and grab hold of yourself, this is going to shock you, and maybe even awe you a bit. I agree with you. It's one of the more ridiculous descriptions for battle I've ever heard. It's used way too much and yes, they could say something a bit more creative. It seems to me thy tried to sanitize what it really is, selected pulverization.
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  367

  1,2,3,4 We Don't Want This Bloody War

  by Robdar in

  1. social
  2. current

  i went to my first peace rally and march tonight.

  it was incredible.

  at one time there were probably 350 of us all joined in solidarity.

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  DakotaRed

  Jane Fonda, in her response to these new allegations, referred to the returning POWs as being "hypocrites and liars."

  As a Vietnam Veteran, I will refrain from stating my opinion of "Hanoi Jane," you already know what it is. Her half hearted and insincere apology for stating this and her earlier actions have not been well received in Veteran circles. Suffice it to say, the returning POWs were not the "hypocrites and liars." She is one who has never accepted the consequences of her actions.

  Background of Jane Fonda's Anti-War Activities

  While American Soldiers were fighting and dying in the Vietnam War, Jane Fonda, the daughter of Henry Fonda, was using her money and influence at colleges and universities to gather support to advocate communism and encourage rebellion and anarchy against the United States Government.

  On November 21, 1970 she told a University of Michigan audience of some two thousand students, "If you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would some day become communist." At Duke University in North Carolina she repeated what she had said in Michigan, adding "I, a socialist, think that we should strive toward a socialist society, all the way to communism. " Washington Times July 7, 2000

  Jane Fonda began her participation in anti-war activities around 1967, allegedly after meeting with Communists while in France and with American citizens who were revolutionaries. Her activities included active participation in demonstrations, rallies, radio broadcasts and plays.

  Jane Fonda also helped in the organization of a production group called the F.T.A. (F*** The Army). This group helped to set up coffee houses near military bases where they would perform anti-war derogatory-type sketches for the visiting soldiers. The coffee-house sketches were intended to counterpoint the U.S.O. shows, such as Bob Hope and other U.S.O. sponsored performers whose performances increased morale and gave positive support to American soldiers. Some of the F.T.A. coffee house employees would mingle with the soldiers to help them to "relax and unwind", while encouraging the soldiers to desert. Some soldiers alleged that they were promised jobs and money by the F.T.A. if they deserted.

  The Vietnam Veterans Against the War Organization received major financial support from Jane Fonda. Jane Fonda's F.T.A. coffee houses helped in recruiting soldiers and veterans for the Vietnam Veterans Against The War Organization. The Vietnam Veterans Against the War Organization membership was approximately 7,000 at it's highest. The Organization's membership number was comparatively low, when you consider that more than 2 1/2 million Americans served during the Vietnam war.

  Jane Fonda personally sought out returning American soldiers from Vietnam to solicit them to publicly speak out against American atrocities against Vietnamese women and children during her broadcasts. North Vietnamese officials based in Canada allegedly coordinated her broadcasts.

  In 1972 Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden and others traveled to North Vietnam to give their support to the North Vietnamese's Government. When she returned to the United States, she advised the news media that all of the American Prisoners of War were being well treated and were not being tortured.

  As the American POWs returned home in 1973, they spoke out about the inhumane treatment and torture they had suffered as prisoners of war. Their stories directly contradicted Jane Fonda's earlier statements of 1972. Some of the American POWs such as Senator John McCain, a former Presidential candidate, stated that he was tortured by his guards for refusing to meet with Jane Fonda and her group. Jane Fonda, in her response to these new allegations, referred to the returning POWs as being "hypocrites and liars."

  The Wall Street Journal published an interview with Bui Tin who served on the General Staff of the North Vietnam Army and received the unconditional surrender of South Vietnam on April 30, 1975. During the interview Mr. Tin was asked if the American antiwar movement was important to Hanoi's victory. Mr. Tin responded "It was essential to our strategy" referring to the war being fought on two fronts, the Vietnam battlefield and back home in America through the antiwar movement on college campuses and in the city streets. He further stated the North Vietnamese leadership listened to the American evening news broadcasts "to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement." Visits to Hanoi made by persons such as Jane Fonda, former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and various church ministers "gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses." Mr. Tin surmised that "America lost because of its democracy; through dissent and protest it lost the ability to mobilize a will to win." Mr. Tin further advised that General Vo Nguyen Giap (Commanding General of the North Vietnam Army) said the 1968 Tet Offensive was a defeat. Gen. Giap in his book, made the same statement, adding that they were surprised by the news media reporting and the demonstrations in America. Instead of seeking a conditional surrender, they would now hold out because America's resolve was weakening and victory could be theirs.

  From 1969 to the end of the war over 20,000 American soldiers lost their lives in a war that the United States did not have the resolve to win. If General Giap was accurate in his assessment that North Vietnam was going to seek a conditional surrender at the Paris Peace Conference, but stopped due to the sensationalism of the American news media and the anti-war protests following the 1968 Tet Offensive, it follows that those who participated in these anti-war activities have to share partial responsibility for those 20,000 + Americans deaths.

  We won the war on the battlefield but lost it back home on the college campuses and in the city streets.

  Americans must realize that there are agents* operating in this Country attempting to undermine our Country and it's leadership through our democratic principles in an effort to achieve a foreign country's goal. A prime example of such a person during the Vietnam War was Jane Fonda, an admitted Socialist, who blatantly supported North Vietnam. * Agent - Any person who works to obtain the goals of another nation either for money or for their own political beliefs.

  A valuable lesson was taught by North Vietnam to other nations on how the United States may be defeated by fighting a two front war - the battlefield and the American home front. We must be aware of this vulnerability.

  In 1975, after the fall of the South Vietnam Government, Jane Fonda returned to Hanoi with her newborn son Troy for a celebration in her honor for the work she had done for North Vietnam. During the celebration, her son was christened after a Viet Cong hero, Nguyen Van Troi. Troi had attempted to assassinate Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara while on his visit to South Vietnam in 1963. The South Vietnam Government executed Troi for this attempted assassination.

  I have heard and read that some people believe that Jane Fonda was simply young and impressionable. Jane Fonda was born on December 21, 1937. She was 34 years old when she made her infamous trip to North Vietnam and was in her 30's when she participated in anti-war demonstrations and rallies. During this same time period a large number of young American soldiers, who had not yet reached their 21st birthday, were fighting the war in Vietnam and were held accountable for all of their actions. These same young soldiers were, upon their return to the United States, still not of legal age to vote or buy alcoholic beverages. Jane Fonda was an adult when she made these conscious decisions and actions, and as such, she is responsible and should be held accountable. The Vietnam Memorial Wall contains the names of 25,493 American soldiers who served their Country and paid the ultimate price for freedom who were under the age of 21 ( Casualty Statistics ).

  http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm
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  15

  Rachel Corrie - An Inspiring Story

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  invincible.

  we will be invincible .

  we will be invincible.

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  DakotaRed

  Her life was far more precious than the few buildings she was trying to save.

  Very true, Ring, especially since the building she was standing in front of was already half demolished.

  Reporter, going in the military is a different situation. Yes, you are trained to face death, but more importantly, you are trained to stay alive.

  Discretion is the better part of valor.
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  15

  Rachel Corrie - An Inspiring Story

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  invincible.

  we will be invincible .

  we will be invincible.

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  DakotaRed

  Bah, you say that 'cause you couldn't put yourself in her shoes. Your response was predictible. Otherwise, no further comment.

  I wouldn't want to put myself in her shoes. I know enough to step out of the way of a slow moving D-9 Caterpillar bulldozer.

  But, maybe you and others should walk a mile in my old combat boots and see how you fare.
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  15

  Rachel Corrie - An Inspiring Story

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  invincible.

  we will be invincible .

  we will be invincible.

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  DakotaRed

  Too bad she didn't realise Pat Benetars recording of "Invincible" was only a song. What a miserable way to committ suicide.