Posts by Shador

38

Finally out of Hiding

by Shador in

well i finally came out and told my parents i did not believe in the wts doctrines.. for me the last straw was seeing honesty's simple clear proof of the wrongness of 607.

'course i couldn't remember all the refs last night but now i've printed them out.. told them about the ngo thing.

of course they said the "ebul 'postates" were twisting the whole thing.. my dad tried to "reason with me" thusly:.

Well, there was no JC. Three elders came over on Saturday while I was packing up. They "discussed matters" with me for *FOUR HOURS*. They looked over the arguments on 607 and poo-pooed them as being "out of context" and also, when they noted some info was from a 1965 WT, "out-of-date". They barely said anything about the NGO issue. Then they said that: 1. This wasn't really my own research, just the "out of context" ravings of some apostate. and 2. This apostate was just one person. The GB/FDS has whole teams of researchers looking into things when they print them. Then they promised that if I would stay they would study with me to address my concerns on the things I brought up.

They also said, in regards to my internet friends (both here and just general worldly friends that I have made), that "how can you trust them? Why, you don't even know who they really are. They could be anyone. They could be in jail for all you know." How can you trust them over your parents and your "real friends" (i.e. cong, and themselves.).

As for my relatives, they said that "Well, sure they'll *SAY* you can stay with them, cause you're kin to them. But you can bet they'll have second thoughts about it." And again: "How can you trust relatives you haven't seen in years (My aunt in Winston-Salem offered me that I could stay at her place.) over your own parents and friends, who love you.

So anyhoo, I was still resolute... until. After the talking to they bring my parents out to rehash everything with them. My emotions have already been being torn for the past 4 hours, mind you. Now, finally confronted with the hurt and sorrow in my parent's eyes, I cave and recant.

Sunday afternoon, we are informed that no action at all will be taken against me. I will even retain all "privlages of service" (working with the literature, sound box, mics, etc.).

So of course, if I change my mind now, I will have the added guilt trip laid on me of "how could you reject all the 'mercy' that was shown you?"

To top matters off, my parents are going to take MY computer (bought and paid for with MY money) out of my room. (Mind you, I'm 25 years old.)

Luckily there are still periods of time here at work when no one is around that I can access the sites I hang out on.

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Now my grandmother is calling and wondering where I am, so of course I have to call her back. She is rather disappointed that I was "talked into" staying a Witness. But she told me that I still have options and my aunt's offer still stands whenever I want to take her up on it. So that's good.

Personally I think I'll at least hear what "proof" the elders can come up with for 607, etc. first.

-Mike

38

Finally out of Hiding

by Shador in

well i finally came out and told my parents i did not believe in the wts doctrines.. for me the last straw was seeing honesty's simple clear proof of the wrongness of 607.

'course i couldn't remember all the refs last night but now i've printed them out.. told them about the ngo thing.

of course they said the "ebul 'postates" were twisting the whole thing.. my dad tried to "reason with me" thusly:.

Shador

Update: While my folks were out in service, I called my grandmothers in Maryland. Both of them said they would help however they could. The one said I could come live with her "anytime" and that she was "glad my eyes had finally been opened" I even learned that one of my aunts is an ex-JW. I had never heard that before, though mom never tired of telling me that her grandpa was a JW. That, and the support all you are expressing has given me new wind in my sails to endure the hell that is to come with the JC. Though, really, I see no need to go before a JC or defend myself to religious frauds. I suppose I may have to though...

Anyway, thanks for all the support.

38

Finally out of Hiding

by Shador in

well i finally came out and told my parents i did not believe in the wts doctrines.. for me the last straw was seeing honesty's simple clear proof of the wrongness of 607.

'course i couldn't remember all the refs last night but now i've printed them out.. told them about the ngo thing.

of course they said the "ebul 'postates" were twisting the whole thing.. my dad tried to "reason with me" thusly:.

Shador

Well I finally came out and told my parents I did not believe in the WTS doctrines.

For me the last straw was seeing Honesty's simple clear proof of the wrongness of 607. 'Course I couldn't remember all the refs last night but now I've printed them out.

Told them about the NGO thing. Of course they said the "ebul 'postates" were twisting the whole thing.

My dad tried to "reason with me" thusly:

"Do you believe in God?" (Y/N)

I, not being a complete athiest, said yes.

"What kind of god is he? (Evidence of his love in creation of the beautiful earth, etc.)

I conceded on this point, as I do feel that God at least has some concern for man.

"So why does man live only 70 or 80 years, while some TREES can live 4000+? (Body renews self, science does not understand why it stops doing so, marvelous design of brain, etc = Man not intended to die)"

I had no real answer for this.

"Wouldn't a loving God explain what went wrong (also, wouldn't he provide guidance for man)?" "Bible is the only book that explains why we die, ergo, bible is God's word."

Okay, I'm floundering at this point.

"What is the only religion who's members show true love among themselves and refuse to go to war and kill other members of the same religion in other lands?"

I argue that Quakers, etc. don't do war.

"But do they have love among themselves like JWs?"

Floundering. I've never met one, how should I know?

"End result: You KNOW this is the truth, you just don't want to live by it!"

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When bringing up apostate web sites, I was told:

"They don't really care about you. They will tell lies and half-truths in an effort to destroy your faith. That's all they really want to do."

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I asked why WTS doctrine changes and was told that "they are not inspired of God, and don't claim to be" AND of course directed to Proverbs about the light getting brighter.

I then asked why they treat WTS doctrine as though it is inspired, then? (i.e. adherance required)

I got the speil about them being guided by HS (Huh? I thought they wern't inspired?) and, while they may make mistakes, they are God's reps, so they give us information for our good (or some such. I really wasn't listening by this point.)

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Well the upshot is this:

I will probably have to talk to the elders, maybe as early as today. No doubt I will be DFd. I will be kicked out of the house. (Despite the fact that I am the majority breadwinner here, as dad is unable to work, and mom's job don't pay shit. But hey, they'll gladly slit their own throat if the WTS says so.). Also, I do medical transcription in a small, home-run business. The sister who owns it (elder's wife, too), runs it out of her house. So I have absolutely no doubt I will lose my job as well.

So I have no idea what I'm gonna do now. I may be able to go live with my (worldly) grandmother in Maryland, but as for a job?

- Happy to be out, stressed over "consequences"

-Mike L.

28

Assembly Hall Intermission Music

by JH in

jw
friends

.

remember that dull kingdom music.

what music are you thinking about that would have been more appropriate?

Shador

One word:

Deicide

'nuff said.

(P.S. especially "When Satan Rules His World", which was specifically written with JWs in mind, according to band leader Glen Benton)

12

Am I wearing a huge billboard or something??

by Super_Becka in

jw
friends

hmm, i'm starting to think that i'm some kind of "minority religion" magnet.

am i wearing a big sign that begs proselytizing religions to come and convert me or what??

and not only that, but i don't even draw local religious nuts, i draw ones from away!!.

Shador

Hmm, the creepy thing about the ;Mormons ;is, it was a Mormon couple (the wife was actually from Utah, go figure), but it was the man that approached me first, and he had to be at least 60 years old.

Well, yea, but some Mormons have that polygamy thing going on, don't they?

10

XJWs and Christianity

by Shador in

jw
friends

not sure if this is the right place for this.... just wondering about this.

it seems to me that most folks who leave "the truth" tend to go athiest or remain in some type of christianity.. anyone know of (or are) xjws who have gone a different route (i.e.

eastern religions, neo-pagan, wicca, etc.).

Shador

Well, I assume you mean exchanging Jerhover for some pagan pantheon. Actually, what fascinates me is magic/witchcraft. I don't necessarially have many strong feelings about deity/deities. And frankly, if you look at many pagan pantheons, they are much less straitlaced than the god of the bible. I view the bible much the same as other mythology. The main purpose was to 1) explain things in nature that man did not understand and 2) teach moral lessons. While 1) has been rendered mostly defunct by science, 2) is still pretty good in most cases.

Insofar as magic, I tend to think of it as a natural force that man does not fully understand. When properly trained, the human mind can access and utilize this force, like any other natural item/force. Insofar as ritual, I think of it like training wheels. Helpful in training the mind to use this force, but eventually no longer needed. Of course, it is really cool and flashy training wheels

In any case, wicca and other neopagan religions are, to me, much more open and accepting than christianity. Not to mention it goes with my whole tree hugging, vegetarian, semi-pacifist (I will defend myself, if needed, but am non agressive) lifestyle.

-Shador

64

To Those Who Still Go To Meetings, Do You Sense Anything Different?

by minimus in

jw
friends

are people excited by anything in the organization?

are they tired?

mostly missing?

Shador

Yea, my hall is mostly older folks. No growth, lackluster comments, teh works.

I was overjoyed to see the numbers in the '06 Yearbarf. Just about everything down from last year. My stepdad (an MS) said that the CO mentiond this in his meeting with the elders & servants and said that "the society is very concerned". I just bet they are. Less people = less money after all. It seems like the articles about contributing appear every couple of months now in the watchtower. This, combined with the switching of books (even bibles now) to paperback and (I think I heard this) the plans to sell off some buildings in NY make me wonder if the WTS is not already in some financial hoodoo.

Anyway I am eagerly looking forward to the day when the % increase number in the Grand Totals row is a negative number. I think that will truly be the beginning of the end for the WTS. The sooner the better, I say.

13

Bankrupting the WTBS best idea for thoes still in.

by vomit in

jw
friends

i am a bit excited about this idea(though maybe people have had it before).

reading topics about people still being "in".

and how they go around on the field.

Shador

Not to mention how many of the 9 million placed still end up in the recycle bin/trash because people take it just to get rid of the JWs on thier doorstep. Also, I think it should be much more publicised that people can just ask the witnesses never to come back. Imagine whole city blocks (or whole roads out in the rurals) being marked as "Do not call's" in the territory files.

10

XJWs and Christianity

by Shador in

jw
friends

not sure if this is the right place for this.... just wondering about this.

it seems to me that most folks who leave "the truth" tend to go athiest or remain in some type of christianity.. anyone know of (or are) xjws who have gone a different route (i.e.

eastern religions, neo-pagan, wicca, etc.).

Shador

Not sure if this is the right place for this...

Just wondering about this. It seems to me that most folks who leave "the truth" tend to go athiest or remain in some type of christianity.

Anyone know of (or are) XJWs who have gone a different route (i.e. eastern religions, neo-pagan, wicca, etc.)

I ask because I personally have been fascinated for several years with wicca and neo-paganism and I think that would probably be the route I went if/when I DA.

-Shador

38

To all active JWs or double life JWs

by NowImFree in

one of the previous posts made me wonder how many active jws post on this site and how many of you are only in because not wanting to lose your family and you are leading a double life and also how many of you are still active but questioning.

please, all of you, i would like to hear your stories (of course not enough info to give away your identity) and why you are still in.

i think a lot of us that are out would be interested.. nowimfree.

Shador

Just like Collegegurl and stillAwitness, I am pretty much only a witness because I live at home. I would love to disassociate myself, going to the meetings just makes me want to retch. My problems are that:

1) I live at home and probably couldn't afford to live elsewhere (though I do have non-witness relatives that might take me in, I suppose) and my stepdad has made it clear that "out of the truth = out the door"

2) My mother. I really love her and I know it would just tear her up if I left "the truth" and "gave up everlasting life" Also, she does'nt make very much and my stepdad can't work (he's trying to get disability, but you know how gov't is with that) so they would probably not be able to keep their house w/o my income. Not that I care too much for my straitlaced JW stepdad, but I worry for mom.

3) My employer is a witness. It's a small business, run out of her basement (won't say what kind, that might ID me too good). So, if I DA myself, likely I would be out of a job.

4) Having been raised in "the truth", I don't have any non-witness friends. (Save ones I've made over the internet, which I can keep secret by virtue of being more computer savvy than my folks, but none of those are really local to where I live, so...)

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Sometimes I feel like I am going to have a mental breakdown. My folks keep pushing me towards "spiritual goals" Reach out. Pioneer (again). Become an M.S. Goto Bethel. All that kinda s***

*Sigh* I have 3 boxes of stuff hidden in the back of my closet full of "worldly stuff" Ray's book, RPG games (Ooooh D&D, so evil.... Oooh), The Lord of the Rings and other fantasy novels, Anime (violence, magic, revealing outfits, etc...) and live in constant fear of being discovered.

And most of the R&F are such nice people. It just makes me sick to hear them spouting all this brainwashed JW crap. And that the WT Society has them so twisted around that if I DA myself I would instantly go from being a nice young man to the vilest POS that ever walked the earth.

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In addition, I am so messed up that, at times, I find myself fantazing that their "prophicies" are true, but I am leading the opposition. Leading armies against them, turning them in left and right, trying to force them to renounce, etc.

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I just don't know what to do or where to turn. Sorry for the length, but it feels good to get that off my chest finally.