Posts by GBSJG

14

the begining of the end

by whatawaste in

i would like to ask for some help if that is ok, first ill exsplain my situation.

im 19, male, and for the last 1-2 months have been to no meetings at all, due to all this stuff with the un and many other things.

i was on the phone the other day to one of my close (well i thought so) friends, and we were talking, you see he is from another town and had no idea of me not attending meetings.

GBSJG

Just give him this URL it is from the UN site itself so it's all facts.

http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/pdfs/watchtower.pdf

17

finally got my copy - so first priority is to burn copies for blondie, alanf and garybuss - i just hope they realize this year they have the annoyance of the days text popping up every time they use it

GBSJG

I just downloaded the english version from reexamine and the WT volumes go back to 1950 on the dutch version it goes back to 1970, strange.

I wonder in Bethel they must have all publications ever published in digital form or not? Will they ever bring out a DVD version of the WTLib with all books ever published by them? I guess not but it would be very interresting.

I also noticed that on the CD the Aid book is missing because it supposed to be replaced by the Insight book.

17

2005 CD ROM

by stillajwexelder in

finally got my copy - so first priority is to burn copies for blondie, alanf and garybuss - i just hope they realize this year they have the annoyance of the days text popping up every time they use it

GBSJG

How far back does the English 2005 CD-ROM goes.

I have the Dutch version and it only contains Watchtowers, Awakes and books from 1970-2005 is that the same on the English version?

39

Discussion with my parents about WTS

by GBSJG in

jw
friends

after reading for a few months this is my first post here.

i was raised a jehovah's witness by my parents who became jw's in the late '70s from field service.

i'm still a jw but doing a lot of researching on the history of the wts.

GBSJG

Thank you all for the suggestions.

@bebu it's great to see all the things that are normally between the lines of the watchtower that are spelled out clearly in that court case.

My parents are 50 years old and have been a JW for about 25 years. I think my parents have had doubts before because they already knew a lot of things that I brought up. Also because they say that their faith is not based on calculations with numbers and that they don't believe everything the FDS teaches.

My parents have brought a lot of there family members into the JWs so I think it is hard for them to accept that it isn't the truth.

39

Discussion with my parents about WTS

by GBSJG in

jw
friends

after reading for a few months this is my first post here.

i was raised a jehovah's witness by my parents who became jw's in the late '70s from field service.

i'm still a jw but doing a lot of researching on the history of the wts.

GBSJG

@jstalin It's interesting because my parents don't believe 607 and thus 1914 is questionable. But they do believe the WTS is the FDS and that we are living in the time of the end because all the signs are here (earthquakes etc..). And they also believe that 1914 is a significant year because all historians agree so.

I think they still believe all the doctrines for 1914, only not the seven times calculation. Perhaps my parents haven't thought about what consequences it has to not believe 607 for all the other doctrines that are based on that year.

39

Discussion with my parents about WTS

by GBSJG in

jw
friends

after reading for a few months this is my first post here.

i was raised a jehovah's witness by my parents who became jw's in the late '70s from field service.

i'm still a jw but doing a lot of researching on the history of the wts.

GBSJG

@Elsewhere I talked with my parents about that and said that altough the WTS never said that they where inspired they did say that they where Jehovah's prophets. My parents didn't asked me where the WTS has said that so I think they already knew. I remember there was also an article in the Awake about false prophets and in a footnote the WTS explained that they where not inspired and therefore there "end of the world" claims must not be considered as false prophets. I told my parents that I got the idea that the WTS claims to be Jehovah's prophet all the time except for when their prophecies don't come out and then the WTS says "Yes but we didn't say we are inspired". Again they didn't have a good answer to my question.

Altough my parents like the open discussion they also said that the points I bring up distresses them a bit, I can imagine but somehow I don't think they will stop believing in the WTS. From all the things that I have researched so far I am fairly convinced that the WTS is not led by Jehovah. It fascinates me to see what my parents really believe and what their explaination is for the points that I bring up.

39

Discussion with my parents about WTS

by GBSJG in

jw
friends

after reading for a few months this is my first post here.

i was raised a jehovah's witness by my parents who became jw's in the late '70s from field service.

i'm still a jw but doing a lot of researching on the history of the wts.

GBSJG

@aniron I know your right. There is no difference in reading about things on the internet or out of a book. What I'm trying to avoid is to have the elders on my back at this time. I will consider ordering the book.

You said that you have been 30 years in the org and that there is so much more info available now. That is true and I wonder if my parents where coming in the organisation now and not in the '70s and they did their research with all information available today would they still have become JW?

Untill a few months ago I never questioned the WTS. I was looking up various things using wikipedia and deciced to check out there artical about JW (I'm using wikipedia in my local language not the english one) and the article itself was very friendly altough it contained one paragraph called "critics" and below the article where some hyperlinks (to apostate sites) and I just couldn't resist. Then I read some things and tought this isn't true untill I saw some things that I could verify like the UN and also saw some letters and replies about the subject to WTS. Then I really got interrested and started to do a lot of research.

Most scarring thing that I found out is that I believe that the WTS knows that 607 is wrong but they hold on to that date for various reasons (I think fear of losing members) and thus willingly withold the real truth to JWs. That made me wonder if they do it with 607 with what other things are they also not honest.

39

Discussion with my parents about WTS

by GBSJG in

jw
friends

after reading for a few months this is my first post here.

i was raised a jehovah's witness by my parents who became jw's in the late '70s from field service.

i'm still a jw but doing a lot of researching on the history of the wts.

GBSJG

I want to read the entire Ray Franz book but then I would have to buy that book and somehow I have difficulties with that (buying literature that is considered apostate) and I don't like having a book in my house that I need to hide for some people that come etc etc, perhaps in the future I will buy it. At this time only my parents and my wife know about my research about the WTS.

The Mexico Malawi incident I am aware of but I find it hard to find evidence for this to show to my parents. The evidence for the UN scandal is very easy since it's on the UN website itself.

I also talked with my parents about the changes in de blood doctrine and how it can be that a human organisation makes such discions (about the blood fractions) that clearly don't have a biblical base. They already knew about the organ transplants doctrine changes, they said that they couldn't understand why it was forbidden because the bible clearly doesn't talk about organ transplants. I believe the reason was that the WTS considerd it to be a cannibal act, haven't discussed that with my parents yet. Usually when I mention such things they admit they don't know why the WTS does these things, and then they change the subject to all the other things the WTS has right (only religion that doesn't go to war etc..).

I confronted my parents with all my findings in one evening that was an interresting evening I can tell you. Then I said let's discuss one thing at the a time and we started with 607 because that was the one they were most interrested in. So I researched it for myself and then showed the result to them and they researched it and came to the conclusion that 607 is probably wrong.

39

Discussion with my parents about WTS

by GBSJG in

jw
friends

after reading for a few months this is my first post here.

i was raised a jehovah's witness by my parents who became jw's in the late '70s from field service.

i'm still a jw but doing a lot of researching on the history of the wts.

GBSJG

My father used to be an elder so he knows what is considered apostate. I have also brought that up because I was suprised that they disagree with the WTS on some points. They said that as long as you believe the important doctrines and don't go talking about your doubts or alternative doctrines with others with the purpose to bring the WTS in a bad light it is not apostate or at least my parents don't consider it as begin apostate. They also said that they have discussed some other minor things with other JWs with who they feel they could talk about these things without undermining their faith in the WTS.

I also said to them look I've been raised as a JW but now I want to find out for myself if it really is the truth and I said that if it is the truth it can withstand any attack even from apostates, they agreed with me. They only said be carefull because the goal of apostates is to get you away from WTS and they are influenced by Satan. But if I come with good arguments they are willing to discuss these with me. I also said that JWs expected from people who are in other religons to examine that "false"-religion and study with JWs, so that it's hypocrite that we may not do the same and they agreed.

I noticed that my parents thinking is not always in line with WTS and I find that very interresting because they are convinced that WTS is the truth. My parents actually told me they where glad that I was doing some serious study about JWs and that I discussed my doubts with them.

39

Discussion with my parents about WTS

by GBSJG in

jw
friends

after reading for a few months this is my first post here.

i was raised a jehovah's witness by my parents who became jw's in the late '70s from field service.

i'm still a jw but doing a lot of researching on the history of the wts.

GBSJG

Hello,

After reading for a few months this is my first post here. I was raised a Jehovah's Witness by my parents who became JW's in the late '70s from field service. I'm still a JW but doing a lot of researching on the history of the WTS. If have read a lot about the UN scandal 607 vs 586, child abuse, blood doctrine and some chapters that are online from the book of Ray Franz.

Recently I informed my parents about my findings after doing a lot of research. Before my parents became JW's they also did some extensive research they had read apostate literature to see if it really was the truth, they believe it is the truth. I started with the changing of the generations doctrine and said that I found it strange that they can change anything when they liked it. My parents said that they also had some diffculties at that time but that there where changes before and there will be more changes in the future.

Next I started about the UN scandal of course they didn't know a thing about it and they didn't believe it so I showed them the UN website did a search for Watchtower and let them read the PDF file. They couldn't believe how stupid the WTS has been but said that the WTS is not inspired so they make mistakes but they admitted that this was a big one. My parents wonderd why this hasn't been in the news. So I said well it has been in other countries and to the world a connection between the WTS and the UN doens't seem that big a scandal as it is to JW.

Then I started about 607, they knew that the WTS held a different date then most wordly sources, they believed that 607 was bible based. I actually send them a url to a apostate website that goes deeper into the appendix of the Kingdom come book. The archeological evidence is enormous and it also pointed out that 586 can be in harmony with the bible. After studying it my parents told me they couldn't explain the 20 year gap and all the evidence but that they understand why the WTS uses 607 and the bible to back it up and that they still believed it. Later I did some research about why we changed the date from 606 to 607 and show that to them. When they read that they concluded that 607 was probably wrong and also the prohepcy of seven times are wrong, but they still believe that we are living in the end.

They have also read the proclaimers book so they knew about a lot of things already. They already knew about beth-sarim and pyramids although they didn't know about the pyramid at the grave yard of Russell. I showed them a chapter from Studies in the scriptures that went into great detail about the pyramids and 1914. My parents said that they weren't surprised about it and said that their believes where never based on calculations for numbers and that they don't think the WTS is correct on all those date calculations.

Then I began about the WTS being Gods organisation and how can they then make so much mistakes. They said well the WTS doesn't say that they are inspired they only say that God's spirit is amongst them. They also said take a look at the preaching work that is being done to fullfil Matth 24:14 this cannot be done without an organisation. They see that as a prove that it is God's organisation. And of course Matt 24:45-47.

For myself I'm not sure if it really is the truth, I am still examining all things and I enjoy the fact that I can openly discuss these things with my parents and of course I understand that they defend the WTS but they are still reasonable as you can see that they now no longer believe 607. I also discussed with them that they are JW but they do not believe all doctrines, they said well we do believe all the important ones.

What are some more interresting points that I can discuss with them about the WTS?