I thought that picture you had was pretty funny. I remember when I saw it for the first time, I was like:"what the heck is that?" You may remember that I sent you a message asking you what it was. The picture was too small for me to tell. When you messaged me back, telling me what it was, I cracked up!
Posts by Arthur
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20New Avatar due to some not liking the old one
by brutusmaximus in.
due to a few pm's regarding my last picture (a man falling off a toilet) which i thought was funny some didn't like it so it has been changed.
bm
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25
We need help
by _Atlas ini dont post too often but im always lurking from my workplace.
but now i feel the need to ask for any advise from you guys.
a while back, when i decided i had enough of the wt internal politics and the wait on jah attitude, i faded away from the hall and basically disappeared into the night.
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Arthur
There is absolutely nothing that you could have said that "wrecked" her faith. You really did not have that power. There was something inside of her that made her listen to you and take heart. There was something inside of her that made her want to read C.O.C. You must remember that there was a reason why she kept contacting you and why she internalized what you told her. Most Witnesses do not do that. Anytime you say anything even remotely critical of the org, the "apostate alarm" goes off inside their head.
Trust me. When I was a Witness, I met apostates many times. Not once did anything they say make a dent in my thinking. It wasn't until I was willing to listen to my own doubts and intuiton that I finally opened up mentally and was willing to investigate. The crisis of faith only occurs from the inside.
She is indeed in for a rough emotional ride. Several times, I thought that I was going to have panic attacks and nervous breakdowns. In my case too, all of my family and most relatives are devout JWs. I am still going through some very rough emotional adjustments. But, this is normal.
She is going to need some very strong support. Sometimes, exit counseling is beneficial and has helped many ex-JWs.
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72
Big announcement after all DC have ended?
by Quandary ini was told by a reliable source that the organization will be making a "big announcement" at the end of the summer when all the dcs have ended.
has anyone else heard this?
maybe this is the "new light" they have alluded to in recent wt study articles?
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Arthur
Quandary's source is probably correct. I too have heard from Witnesses that there are going to be some very significant changes or announcements comming from Brooklyn.
Several months ago, Governing body member Anthony Morris visited Central California. A brother I know personally who is an Elder had lunch with him. According to this Elder I know, Morris told him that there are going to be some "big changes" and that many people are not going to like them. Morris emphasized that the changes are for the "good of the flock".
Comments like this make me believe that the announcement is probably not going to be doctrinal, but that the Governing Body is probably going to prohibit Witnesses from something.
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DeIndoctrination
by Shazard inwhat about using wt tactics against them?
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how to attract jw and keep them long enough to get chances to reach their mind and plant seeds of doubt about wt?
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Arthur
I know that my opinion is probably unpopular, but I think that the process of trying to "deindoctinate" Witnesses is misguided. I think that the mind control that permeates the religion is just like an addiction. How many alcoholics are able to accept it when a family member tells them that they have a problem?
When I was a faithful JW, I met "apostates" on many occasions in service. I can honestly say that their arguements were logical, but my mind had already sounded the "apostate alarm" which shut down all of my rational thinking faculties. There were some apostates who showed me clear an unambiguous contradictions right out of the Watchtower articles but, I still completely dismissed it because it was being presented by an "evil apostate".
I sincerely believe that the process of the mind beginning to open happens from the inside. This is certainly what happened with me. I used to hate and denounce "apostates". It wasn't until I hit an emotional "rock bottom" that I finally had the denial and false pride shaken out of me. This is what it took for me to have the humility and intellectual honesty to finally scrutinize the organization and my beliefs about it. No amount of articulate reasoning or persuasion by a former Witness could have done that for me.
The truth is, I had to be ready. I had to become honest and open minded before I could even question my beliefs. No person on earth could have done this for me.
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74
Why do the majority of "newbies" disappear ???
by kid-A ini have noticed that, in general, there is a "core" of regular posters on jwd that have been members for several years.. however, it seems the vast majority of "newbies" disappear after a couple posts, days or perhaps a week.
how many "welcome" or "introduction" .
threads have we had here where the new member disappears within a day or so, never to post again?
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Arthur
As one of the newbies, I can say that the reason that I rarely post is because I just don't have the time to devote to this site that others do. I really love this site and have enjoyed exchanging ideas with many of it's members. I am just very busy and can't spend as much time as I would like.
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Anyone have a technique to explain mind control, without implicating WTS?
by whyizit inevery once in awhile i will be talking to my jw friends and the subject of other religions will come up.
they love to take jabs at other religions, as most of you know.
i remember one time we were talking about a cult (not wts) and i mentioned that this guy i knew got kicked out for smoking a cigarette, eternal damnation loomed over his head, while this other guy received a very minor reprimand for screwing some other guy's wife.
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Arthur
I too, agree with Scully about Steven Hassan's book. I have been reading it and the similarities are startling to say the least. Mind Control has several different aspects that can be discussed individually at great length.
However, there is a very important point to remember. One could share all of the cult aspects, case studies, and data in the world with a JW without them ever making any connections to the Watchtower. Mind control has an intrinsic mechanism built into it that shields itself from any discomforting information. I got very good at this over the years as a JW. It wasn't until I hit an emotional rock bottom trying to be a good "Witness" that I was finally able to get to a point where I was totally honest with myself and willing to address all of my doubts about the organization's beliefs. It's sort of like an alcoholic or drug addict. They can point to everyone else as an addict or alcoholic without ever seeing it in themselves; until they too hit rock bottom and are willing to give up their self-delusions.
Most JWs will never get to the point where they are willing to relinquish the pride and denial that inhibits them from rationally analyzing information. I think that only those who have gone through a "crisis of faith" or have been shaken by some event in their life as a JW will be able to have the open mindedness and the willingness to finally face their doubts.
I think that another important point to remember is that nobody ever really changes anybody else's mind. It is always we individually who ultimately change our own minds.
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During what years did you consider it to be the time of the end?
by JH in.
my time of the end was from 1987 when i joined the jw's up to 1995 when the november watchtower changed the rules of the game, and redefined a generation.. so, when i refer to the time of the end, i think of the (1987-1995) period..
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Arthur
In the late 1990s. I am embarrassed to admit this, but in 1997 when I first began to read about the Y2K danger, I seriously thought that this was going to be a global catastrophe.
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Arthur
I believe that some of it had Divine influence. I certainly don't believe that it was "dictated" from the "mouth" of God directly to the pen of the writers as some people claim. There is enormous evidence that many Old Testament accounts were merely literary works that were derived from much earlier mythology (i.e. the global flood, Samson, Tower of Babel). Personally, I think that much of the Old Testament although containing historical accuracies; contains mythology and politically motivated propaganda. (except Psalms and Proverbs).
The New Testament is a different story. I find many of the parables, principles, and sayings of Jesus Christ to be very powerful and compelling. When I began studying the New Testament without the aid of Watchtower publications, I actually began to see it in a much deeper, more inspiring light. I think that there is overwhelming historical evidence that most of the New Testament is very trustworthy.
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24
Picture of my kids,,,,,brag a bit
by LyinEyes ini hope this works,,,,,,here are four of my reasons to love my life and at times pull my hair out!!.
the girl in the glasses is my daughter kelly , she is 13 and a goth, she is so unique and such a strong free spirit.
she wants piercings and tatoos, but it aint happening till she is 18. .
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Arthur
Lyin Eyes,
I agree with everyone else. Really nice looking kids. Thanks for sharing.
Es,
Your little boy is such a cute little kid. He looks like he probably has a funny sense of humor.
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24
Which Event Made You Think That Armageddon Was Around The Corner?
by Arthur ini realize that this topic has been discussed at length, but since i'm new to this site, i wanted to pose the question again.
i ask this question because of the wide range in ages of all of you on this site.
but what about those who had already left the organization before 2001?
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Arthur
What event or period of time made you believe that the end of this system was just around the corner? I realize that this topic has been discussed at length, but since I'm new to this site, I wanted to pose the question again. I ask this question because of the wide range in ages of all of you on this site. For many of us, the event was no doubt 9/11. But what about those who had already left the organization before 2001? Which events caused you to believe that the Great Tribulation was beginning? Was it the Cuban Missile Crisis? The Vietnam War? Watergate? The fall of the Soviet Union?
This is a subject that I have always wanted to question other long-time witnesses about. No doubt, as we look back over the 20th century, there have been several periods that have given every indication that the world was unraveling and that the end of this system was just around the corner. Just think about the 1960s, and all of the unprecedented events that happened in rapid succession in that decade. Think about all of the events that lead many Witnesses to be convinced that "this system of things" was ending. In the 1960s, there was the Cuban Missile Crisis, then the assasination of J.F.K. The Vietnam war was raging. There was the huge civil rights unrests in the South and riots throughout the country. There was the massive anti-war and counter-culture movement with it's "free love" and drug indulgence. Then came the assasinations of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy. Then, in 1968, the Witnesses began to look to 1975 as the end of the 6,000 year period. No doubt, all of the evidence was obvious that the system was ending soon. "Just look at what's happening in the world!" is what many Witnesses were no doubt telling their Bible studies and each other.
Do you thing anyone was saying that this system could go on for another 30 plus years? I doubt it. What do you think would have been other Witnesses reaction? They would have surely said that this Witness was deluding himself and was blind to everything that was happening.
I'm just wondering if the decade of 2000 - 2009 could be history repeating itelf. I've recently found it odd that Jehovah's Witnesses have gone into a heightened expectation of Armageddon about every 30 years. The pattern has become almost cyclical:
In the 1910s there was the heightened expectation due to the 1914 prediction.
Thirty years later, the world looked as though it was falling apart with World War II. Most Witnesses agreed with Rutheford that Armageddon would come within a couple of years.
Thirty years after that, the U.S. was reeling from all of the events of the 1960s, and now was being humiliated in Vietnam and President Nixon was embroiled in Watergate.
Thirty years after that, we have 9/11, the invasion of Afghanastan, the Iraqi war, and the 2006 convention Deliverance At Hand.
Yes, the Witnesses have always been saying that the end of the system is just around the corner. But, about every 30 years, these patterns of especially heightened expectations emerge. It's odd. I'm sure several of you have noticed these patterns. What are your thoughts? What about those of you who are old enough to remember events like the Cuban Missile Crisis or even those of you who remember World War II? Did you get caught up in the mania of heightened expectations? Were you disappointed? Disillusioned?
I've noticed Witnesses ridiculing people who believe that this system of things is not ending now. They say: "He's so blind. Just look at what's happening in the world!" Many of these are Witnesses who are old enough to remember the 1960s and the run-up to 1975. They don't seem to grasp the concept of history repeating itself. But, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I am deluded. However, if I'm right, I will hate to see further disappointment in people that I love and care about.