Posts by Arthur

356

Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

i'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).

and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.

people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!

Arthur

AuldSoul, I deeply appreciate your posts in this thread. They have been very helpful to me in my development. However, I always appreciate your posts.

I'm sure that many of you will be able to relate to my own experience. While I was a JW, the scriptures (particularly the NT) seemed to have somewhat of a sterile feeling to them; as we were always to read and meditate on these scriptures through the pre-established paradigm of the "Organization". I never truly felt as though any of the verses were really speaking to me; but were merely speaking about "the organization" and how we as robotic minions must fit into this monolithic structure called the "Spirit-directed organization".

When I bought a NIV translation of the Bible, and began to read the New Testament without any regard to Watchtower publications, the scriptures felt pleasantly unfamiliar. Many verses that I had read a hundred times; seemed as if I was being introduced to them for the first time. It was an amazing experience. It was particularly amazing to begin to read the books of Romans and Galatians without looking at them through the interpretative lenses of WTS publications. Reading these scriptures through the interpretative lenses of the WTS was like watching a black and white television. When I began to read other translations without WTS publications; it was like watching a color TV. For the first time; I really began to feel as if Paul was speaking to me personally. The scriptures took on such a richer, and deeper meaning.

This made me particualrly interested even further as to why the Watchtower Society discourages private Bible study without the use of their publications to suppliment it. I began to think about the concept of Biblical suppliments. Why does something need suppliments unless it is deficient in some way? Why does truth need to be supplimented with a magazine that has changed it's teachings over and over again with the whims of it's writers? I have reached the conclusion that the Watchtower's sole purpose has been a tool for indoctrination. It has been the hammer that pounds the collective thinking of JWs into one unanimous script that can be parroted back to people through cliche-laden talking points.

As Randall Watters has pointed out; it is not really unity that the WTS is seeking; it is unanimity. True unity is something achieved through true love and spirit. Unanimity is reached through brute force. In the case of JWs, unanimity is manifested through a process of indoctrination that uses guilt and fear as it's tools of manipulation. Why else would they print children's books with graphic illustrations of people dying at Armageddon? (i.e. latest Great Teacher book)

AuldSoul, I share so many of your thoughts and feelings. As for me, my days are numbered. It is only a matter of time before I am disfellowshipped for Apostacy. It will be very painful losing my family; but it will also be somewhat of a relief; as I will be able to close this chapter of my life for good.

33

Elderly JW refused to open her Bible...

by AuldSoul in

jw
friends

okay, some of you might have read about my conversation with the elderly lady that was doing street witnessing in conyers, ga. this experience happened this morning ... just looked at the clock, yesterday morning .

i walked out of the local tag office (where we register our vehicles and acquire license plates for the cars) and there sat an elderly lady with current magazines.

being in somewhat of a hurry, i tried to walk a more direct path to my vehicle ... but she thought i was avioding her.

Arthur

This doesn't surprise me. When I used to go out in service, I used to consider anybody like you who asked critical questions as someone who is "hard hearted" and who "doesn't want to learn the truth", but just "wants to argue". Anybody who dares to ask tough questions is considered "proud" and perhaps even "goatlike".

When you told her that you already knew about JW's, I'm sure her internal "apostate alarm" went off. This was certainly the case with me. When I used to meet anyone who said that they knew several things about us and wanted to ask tough questions; my first thought was that they had most likely been talking to apostates. This internal rationalization allowed me to quell my internal dissonance and to excuse my inabilities to engage with them in any meaningful dialogue. I'm sure that this was the case with this woman.

So, you need to tell us: What were those four questions you asked? Please tell.

43

Matt 22:23-30--no sex for resurrected ones?

by M.J. in

the wts promotes the idea that in the "new system" members of the great crowd, who are not resurrected, will be able to marry and have children.. but what about those that are resurrected?.

does the wts apply matt 22:23-30 to people resurrected on earth?

(the passage is obviously applied to people who were pre-new covenant).

Arthur

Does this mean that there will be two forms of humans dwelling on earth--one that is sexual, married, and raising families and the other that is non-marrying, non-sexual 'like the angels in heaven'?
Doesn't that seem rather odd?

In short, the answer to your first question is Yes.

The answer to your second question is also Yes.

12

Do the Governing Body members go out in field service?

by Woofer in

jw
friends

don't know why i just thought of that.

do they go or are the "exempt" from going from door to door?.

Arthur

They count time for it. Some people have referred to it as "wheelchair witnessing."

LOL ! Wheelchair witnessing. That's rich. Why didn't I think of that! I could have faked an injury and had someone park my wheelchair at the beach where I could count time looking at women in bikinis. Hot damn. I would call that "wandering eyes witnessing".

16

How accountable is the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

untitled document  should the governing body of jehovah's witnesses be held accountable?

understandably, this question is going to create some controversy.

however, think for one moment?

Arthur

I think that they are accountable for the way they have tied heavy burdens upon the Witnesses just as the Pharisees did in Jesus' day. They have certainly made themselves into "idols" where people are expected to put their full trust in them. Witnesses themselves bear some accountability for puting more esteem and trust into these men than they do Jesus Christ.

However, there is a huge concept that everyone has bought into and is held captive by. It is talked about it the book: Captives of a Concept by Don Cameron.

In a previous thread, I wrote about how even the GB is captive to this concept. Read my post at:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120843/2135274/post.ashx#2135274

12

Do the Governing Body members go out in field service?

by Woofer in

jw
friends

don't know why i just thought of that.

do they go or are the "exempt" from going from door to door?.

Arthur

No, they are not considered exempt from field service. They also go out in service from door to door. In fact, I have heard some Witnesses say things like:

"Immagine those householders who are rude and ridicule the GB members out in service! They have no idea who they are talking too! Won't they be sorry!"

36

The Faithful and Discreet Slave is posting on JWD

by under_believer in

jw
friends

see for yourself.

how do we know that he's the faithful and discreet slave?

same way we know that the governing body represents the faithful and discreet slave: because he says so.

Arthur

I'm just pissed that he hijacked my thread and filled it with mealymouthed woo. I almost think a moderator action is called for.

Posters like him usually don't last long. Eventually, they cannot resist breaking posting guidelines because of their immaturity. The best thing to do is ignore him. It's like a child that does outlandish things to get attention. If you ignore his silly antics, he'll eventually get bored and go to another site where other people are willing to indulge in his games.

36

The Faithful and Discreet Slave is posting on JWD

by under_believer in

jw
friends

see for yourself.

how do we know that he's the faithful and discreet slave?

same way we know that the governing body represents the faithful and discreet slave: because he says so.

Arthur

under_believer

There has been an abundance of crack pots who like to post on this site just to "stir the pot". The poster that you are refering to (I will not mention names) should be viewed the same as a mentally ill homeless person who walks around telling people that they are Julius Ceasar.

356

Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

i'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).

and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.

people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!

Arthur

This post is especially directed to you newbies:

If any of you have not yet picked up the book: Captives of a Concept by Don Cameron; I highly recommend that you do so. It is probably the best book written that directly addresses the issue that JWs believe that the GB represents God.

http://captivesofaconcept.com

Here are a few of his quotes:

"It is the concept or premise upon which their religion rests. A concept so powerful that upholding it rather than upholding the truth is what influences and ultimately controls the decision-making process of not only the men of the Governing Body but all the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses as well." -pg. 10

"The concept that still holds millions of Jehovah's Witnesses captive is their belief that the Watchtower Society is God's chosen organization to teach them what he wants them to believe; that all of God's directions to mankind comes through this one 'channel of communication'. " -pg. 11

"Once people become thoroughly convinced that God is speaking to them directly or by means of some other person or organization they must act in harmony with their belief or else feel guilty before God Almighty if ever they were to disagree or fail to follow the directions being given." -pg. 12

The following statements are especially appropriate:

"It isn't just that Jehovah's Witnesses simply believe this concept - it's what that belief does to them. Among other things it prevents most of them from noticing anything wrong no matter how wrong it is. And in case anyone does think they notice something wrong, they are warned that they must never try to do anything about it but simply wait for God to do something about it because, after all, 'it is his organization' . . " -pg. 13

Cameron; who was a congregation elder for many years, goes on to chronicle and list all of the teachings, doctrines, and prophecies uttered by Russell and Rutheford prior to 1919 when Jesus supposedly chose the Bible Students as his "Faithful Slave".

Cameron asks how Jesus would have possibly chosen men who believed and taught:

that the Great Pyramids contained divine messages.
that Jesus had returned invisibly in 1874 and then prophecied that the end would come in 1914.
that still celebrated Christmas, and used the cross.
that again prophecied that the end would come in 1918, and then again in 1925.

Cameron asks why Jesus would have inspected and then chosen people as his "Faithful Slave" who had been serving "Spiritual Food" that was utterly contaminated.

It's a powerful book which shows what a sham the "Faithful and Discreet" slave doctrine really is.

3

Can I print a post out?

by hamsterbait in

jw
friends

sometimes in the course of a longgg thread there is maybe an individual post contributed that i wan t to keep.. is it possible to print an exerpt of one post from a thread - or will i have to keep printing out dozens of pages to keep the one bit i am interested in?.

if i can, how??.

hb.

Arthur

This is really easy. I do it all of the time.

Simply highlight the post you want to print.

Go to Print or ( Ctrl+P )

In the print dialogue box, click on the bubble that says "selection" and then click okay