dozy

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Posts by dozy

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  99

  Can you be a JW who does not have the GB as their leader?

  by DoubtingThomas in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am.. they are just fellow brothers, old and getting senile.... but enlightened, despite all the whining.....

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  dozy

  My cousin is in roughly the same place as DT and has tried to maintain that really challenging position for a few years (ie thinking of the GB a bit like the bad kings of Israel to be respected but not idolised- don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - some unique doctrines like neutrality , against the Trinity etc ). He admits it is something of a fudge but for inertia and various family reasons even serves as a MS & does construction work for the Society.

  In reality though , so much of the Org is tied up with following the leaders without question and all the meetings are based around that it is an extremely difficult position to maintain (and can never be voiced openly, otherwise the elders come knocking very quickly and you would be kicked out of the Org for daring to criticise the GB).

  A much more honest way to go is how Ray Franz depicted in his books , where he made it clear that worshipping God does not involve blindly following a few religious leaders.
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  17

  Can you get disfellowship for kissing a person of the same sex?

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i found this on exjwreddit.

  a pimo elder is in the middle of an event where a former co allegedly kissed a brother from another hall.. the co denied it so the other elders are frustrated because they can't have a judicial meeting.

  if true, can he be disfellowshipped?

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  dozy

  A kiss is just a kiss - as Bluesbrother stated , its not in itself a DFing offence , even between men. But doubtless the elders would want to investigate , especially if COs are involved.

  Re Judicial Committees - I have always found the notion of "repentance" a bit curious anyway. It just seems to be something that is pretty easily faked or mixed up with feelings of guilt / embarrassment when the person gets caught.

  In the JCs I was involved in as an elder , I was pretty skeptical with the whole concept. Teenagers doing cigarettes / drugs , adultery , pre-marital sex etc. Nobody really seemed especially sad or guilty - it just seemed to be a process. I suspected that most of the "sins" would never have come to light unless somebody had snitched on them. A pioneer sister confessed to an office sexual romance with a "worldly guy" eight years previously that had only just been revealed due to a complete fluke of circumstances led to her husband finding out. Almost all were just reproved though - some publically , most privately.
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  40

  More cracks in the dam - WTS pleading for elders "in their early 20s"

  by FFGhost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have another post here about how the wts is reeling from covid, as reflected in their abysmally catastrophic service report:.

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6315842470936576/annual-service-report-yet-another-analysis-big-trouble-wts.

  here's another rupture showing.. in the latest "announcements and reminders" to elders, there is a paragraph with these sentences:.

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  dozy

  That's a big change (the elder's age requirement change). It was always the case that 30 was (unofficially) the minimum age to be appointed - I remember several well qualified JWs who patiently had to wait till their 30th birthday before being made up as an elder.

  Although never officially stated , I think Timothy was often cited as he was in his 30's when recommended by Paul and of course Jesus who was baptised when 30. Very occasionally a slightly younger guy was made an elder but that was very much the exception. My cousin was appointed when he was 28 and even that was really unusual even though he was a pioneer / Kingdom Construction worker & very zealous JW.

  Appointing elders in their "early 20's" does seem a sign of desperation for people to take responsibility in the congregation and is somewhat stretching the definition of an "older man"!
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  22

  Commenting Ban?

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you think the watchtower will ban commenting at the meetings one day?

  if you are pimo, you might want to try to make some comments to make others think about the “truth”!

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  dozy

  I don't think commenting will ever be stopped - it's a control / personal reinforcement learning mechanism ( a bit like the "personal testimony - why we believe the Mormon church is true etc" in the LDS).

  For many years we had a really good "old school" WT conductor who made it a genuine bible study (within the limited parameters of the article) and he encouraged additional research and commended answers that weren't basically cut and paste verbatim from the paragraph. It was a real highlight , to be honest , and probably kept me in the Org for an extra couple of years , in hindsight. Sadly there was an elders school that focused on "sticking to the material" and I think he got privately criticised by a CO so in a shake-up of elders duties he decided to resign taking the WT feeling he had done it for long enough and wanted to give a younger elder the chance. The new guy was pretty useless.

  Sadly real teachers like that are few and far between in the Society these days and the religion is so "dumbed down" that most people just regurgitate what they read in the paragraph.
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  31

  I have come to the conclusion that a lot of JWs don't care if the end is near.

  by mickbobcat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was in the cult for years about 40. fourth gen born in cult member or for me ex cult member.

  i have seen so many cult members who don't seem to really care if the end is near or not.

  they are much more concerned with the idea that this is their social network and they need and or want it just the way it is.

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  dozy

  The immediacy definitely isn't there like it used to be. In the past there was always a kind of mental calculation from 1914 - that has all changed now with the change in the generation doctrine.

  But even the Society itself no longer seems to believe. They just keep on building and flipping - Ramapo isn't due to be finished by 2026. If they really thought the end was near they would just rent a few buildings , subcontract everything and focus 100% on preaching.
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  17

  2021 Annual Meeting Talk, "I Will Never Abandon You"

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this 19 minute talk by “governing body” member samuel herd lacks enthusiasm, energy and mostly reads his script.

  looks like he was forced to talk about something he no longer believes, but goes along what was written to appease the rest of the ''governing body.''.

  mr. herd says, ''sometimes we have to make adjustments.

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  dozy

  At least Herd will eventually be looked after in the Bethel infirmary and get the GB funeral that his status will permit.

  I find old JWs tend to double down on their beliefs - very few seem to reflect on a wasted life working as an unpaid volunteer for a religious media corporation. Many go by the old mantra "even if it isn't the truth , it is still the best way of life". At least in some cases it gives them a degree of community , albeit it depends on the congregation and family ties etc.
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  17

  2021 Annual Meeting Talk, "I Will Never Abandon You"

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this 19 minute talk by “governing body” member samuel herd lacks enthusiasm, energy and mostly reads his script.

  looks like he was forced to talk about something he no longer believes, but goes along what was written to appease the rest of the ''governing body.''.

  mr. herd says, ''sometimes we have to make adjustments.

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  dozy

  I always felt a bit sorry for older guys in the Org who were still pushing themselves to give talks etc even though they became really poor. It became quite an ordeal to listen to them and a relief when they eventually got put to pasture.

  Herd has always been a really poor speaker , though - I heard him at an international convention many years ago and even then he basically just read the talk word for word from the script ( losing his place a few times ) , including the rather painful scripted "jokes" that he comes out with. If a young kid had done that in our congregation he would have been counselled by the school overseer , but I guess a GB member gets a free pass , especially as he is the token non-white guy there.
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  43

  WHO finally admits that the shit don't work.

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  the main reason most got the vaccine was to protect others.

  now they’re being told they can spread it just as easily as the unvaccinated.

  quotes;.

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  dozy

  For me , the prime reason I took the vaccine was to protect myself and to reduce the impact on my health if / when I do catch covid. Same reason I accept other vaccines , such as measles , flu etc.

  The reason that sub Saharan Africa apparently has a lower level is primarily down to demographics ( many more younger people and fewer elderly ) and other factors ( including much lower levels of reporting ). Other factors discussed in the report below. The few African countries that are similar to western countries ( such as South Africa ) have a much higher level of Covid.

  https://www.ghspjournal.org/content/9/3/433
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  14

  What happens if a JW say “Happy Holidays!”?

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any takers?.

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  dozy

  Official JW response (KM 1986)

  "If people wish us a happy holiday, there is no need to make an issue over their holiday greetings. Rather, we can briefly thank them for their kindness and time in listening to us."
  
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  19

  How on earth can WT lawyers continue to believe WT has God’s backing, when they see all the deception play out in Court.

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here is a post on reddit from mark and kimmy o’ donnell, from the crusaders documentary,.

  ask us anything.. mr. o'donnell gives his assessment of why wt lawyers continue to defend the child sex abuse cases that the organization continues to fight, even though they see firsthand the deception, the lies, the withholding of facts and dirty tactics used in court.

  by an organization that claims to be god's earthly representative, and the only one to hold the truth.

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  dozy

  I guess you could ask the same about Catholic lawyers or Mormon lawyers etc. Most criminal lawyers tend to have something of a relaxed attitude to the truth and have the ability to rationalise away any doubts or concerns - their job is to defend their client ( in this case the Watchtower Society.)