betterdaze

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Posts by betterdaze

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  14

  Did Fred Franz?

  by sspo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at the service meeting this week it was mentioned that fred franz was very educated and spoke 6,7 languages.

  and was able to give 1.5 hrs talks without an outline and quote all the scriptures from memory.. i heard that about him for the last 30 years.. is it true or just a mith?

  anyone know more about it?.

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  betterdaze

  moggy lover, thank you for the summary.
  
  ~Sue
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  6

  The JWs compared to the early church

  by greendawn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jws claim to be an exact recreation of the early christian church yet this claim is very far from being genuine, in fact many experts in religion and the general feeling is that the dubs can barely be called christians.

  i give one reason why the early church was different: it had no centralised power structure, a gb with subject cos and dos checking on every congregation and reporting back to them.

  no gb that claimed to have a unique privilege of doctrine formulation and teaching at the exclusion of everyone else.

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  betterdaze

  I enjoy reading the early church fathers also. It really opened my eyes to how willfully ignorant JWs are to Christianity's history and development.
  
  I recommend the Christian Classics Ethereal Library: http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/
  
  or a downloadable PDF here, Early Christians In Their Own Words: http://www.plough.com/ebooks/earlychristians.html
  
  I no longer consider the JWs Christians... They are more like mutant Hebrew Pharisees who use Jesus as a sock puppet to further the MLM scheme.
  
  ~Sue
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  29

  After all those years at the meetings, are they learning anything new?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it doesn't take long to know every jw belief.

  maybe after a few months, you know all that there is to know.. then, every meeting for the rest of your life will be only repitition.

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  betterdaze

  I suspect when they switch to the Koolaid version of the Watchtower in 2008, they will learn lots of new things.
  
  Secret things that make them more *speshul* than ever.
  
  ~Sue
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  25

  Who really killed Goliath?

  by nvrgnbk in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  who really killed goliath?

  before answering "david, of course" look at 2 samuel 21:19.

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  betterdaze

  Good point, Q. Bert. Here's the long explanation from http://ggreenberg.tripod.com/ancientne/101david.html
  
  Several clues indicate that later redactors gave David credit for what had originally been attributed to Elhanan.
  
  In the version crediting David, after Goliath is slain, Saul says,
  
  Whose son is this youth? And Abner said, As thy soul liveth, O king, I cannot tell. And the king said, Inquire thou whose son the stripling is. (1 Sam. 17:55.)
  
  If David were the killer, Saul would have known who he was because David was already a favorite in the royal court.
  
  And David came to Saul, and stood before him: and he loved him greatly; and he became his armourbearer. And Saul sent to Jesse, saying, Let David, I pray thee, stand before me; for he hath found favour in my sight. (1 Sam. 16:21-22.)
  
  If David found favor in Saul’s sight, how could Saul not know whom he had just sent out to fight with Goliath?
  
  After David killed Goliath, the text says that he brought the head to Jerusalem, but during Saul’s reign Jerusalem was in the hands of the Jebusites. It didn’t come into Israelite hands, according to the bible, until after David became king. This suggests that in the original story David was already king when Goliath died.
  
  Coincidentally, in the version crediting Elhanan with killing Goliath, David is already king, and Elhanan is a member of David’ elite fighting group known as “The Thirty.”
  
  The Elhanan version also retains some of the original mythical flavor of the contest. It is one of a sequence of four short stories about individual members of “The Thirty” killing four different giants. Interestingly, in the introductory verse to these four stories about Elhanan and the others, we are told that “David waxed faint,” had grown tired.
  
  Although Elhanan’s father is called Jaareoregim in the verses about Elhanan’s victory over Goliath, the listing of the members of David’s “Thirty” calls the father Dodo. Since the other three giant killers also belong to “The Thirty,” this is the clearly same Elhanan. The connection between Elhanan and Dodo may have been the inspiration for crediting David with Elhanan’s triumph. In Hebrew, the name Dodo is spelled DWDW and David is spelled DWD. The two names are virtually identical and stem from the same root, meaning “beloved.” Dodo and David are also both called Bethlehemites, adding another reason why there may have been confusion over the killer’s identity.
  
  Another indication that the pro-David version of the story borrowed from the Elhanan source comes from the contextual appearance of Goliath’s name. Throughout the David story, the name Goliath only appears twice. The several other references to this warrior simply describe him as “the Philistine” or “the Philistine of Gath.” The manner in which Goliath’s name appears suggests that it was a later insert into the story. For example, in 1 Sam. 17:23, the text reads,
  
  And as he talked with them, behold, there came up the champion, the Philistine of Gath, Goliath by name, out of the armies of the Philistines, and spake according to the same words: and David heard them.
  
  Since the bible had already given Goliath’s name earlier in the story and had already described his great prowess, the phrase “Philistine of Gath, Goliath by name” the addition of the words “by name” sounds artificial.
  
  Originally, the slaying of Goliath was one of a collection of tales in which many heroes slew giants. Elhanan was one of these valiant warriors as were other members of “The Thirty,” many of whom were credited with such victories. “The Thirty” itself may have been a mythical group much like Arthur’s Knights of the Round Table. As David became the greatest hero of the Judaean court and Judaeans were eager to believe their founding king capable of great deeds, his substitution for one of the other giant killers took no great suspension of credibility.
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  25

  Who really killed Goliath?

  by nvrgnbk in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  who really killed goliath?

  before answering "david, of course" look at 2 samuel 21:19.

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  betterdaze

  2 Samuel 21:19
  In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod.
  
  And its parallel,
  
  1 Chronicles 20:5
  In another battle with the Philistines, Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod.
  
  One explanation is that this is a different Goliath, a different battle, years apart. Goliath is more of a description for a giant than a personal name. The first Goliath was killed by David under Saul's reign, this other Goliath and his brother were killed by Elhanan under David's reign.
  
  Another explanation is that Elhanan's kill was only credited to David to enhance his royal reputation. The "brother" was added in later by copyists to "fix" the contradiction with the prior folk hero account in 1 Samuel.
  
  ~Sue
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  8

  Flags Banners Mentioned in the Bible

  by buffalosrfree in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a disagreement with an individual on whether or not there is any mention of banners and flags in the bible.

  i have found one example and that was at ps.

  20:5; if anyone else has anymore examples or ideas, that would help greatly.

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  betterdaze

  The NWT on the Watchtower's own website is not searchable — God's sole channel to mankind cannot seem to manage it. Pity.
  
  Perhaps someone here can search the NWT on the Library CD? Flag, banner, standard, ensign, emblem.
  
  My hard-copy NWT omits "standard" from the book of Numbers ENTIRELY! Rewords all the passages to get around it. Psalms uses "sign" and "signal," Isaiah and Jeremiah "signal."
  
  "Insight on the Scriptures" omits flag, banner and standard. The entry for "sign" focuses on signs of the end. The entry for "signal" refers to the Hebrew word "nes" and they define it as a stationary pole or stake occupying an elevated site... I checked two Hebrew lexicons for "nes" and they came up blank.
  
  My interest in this goes back many years... I used to work for the publisher of a newspaper, The Jewish Standard. Everyone but me (a token goy) knew the name meant a flag, not a measurement of quality. A family standard would be similar to its coat of arms. But in most cases, it means a military or national flag.
  
  *Evidently* the spirit-directed Watchtower translators removed or changed it.
  
  ~Sue
• 
  8

  Flags Banners Mentioned in the Bible

  by buffalosrfree in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a disagreement with an individual on whether or not there is any mention of banners and flags in the bible.

  i have found one example and that was at ps.

  20:5; if anyone else has anymore examples or ideas, that would help greatly.

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  betterdaze

  stand·ard /'stænd?rd/ [stan-derd] –noun
  13. a flag indicating the presence of a sovereign or public official.
  14. a flag, emblematic figure, or other object raised on a pole to indicate the rallying point of an army, fleet, etc.
  15. Military.
  a. any of various military or naval flags.
  b. the colors of a mounted unit.
  16. Heraldry. a long, tapering flag or ensign, as of a monarch or a nation.
  
  Numbers 1:52
  The Israelites are to set up their tents by divisions, each man in his own camp under his own standard.
  
  Numbers 2:2, 3
  "The Israelites are to camp around the Tent of Meeting some distance from it, each man under his standard with the banners of his family." On the east, toward the sunrise, the divisions of the camp of Judah are to encamp under their standard. The leader of the people of Judah is Nahshon son of Amminadab.
  
  Numbers 2:10
  (On the south will be the divisions of the camp of Reuben under their standard. The leader of the people of Reuben is Elizur son of Shedeur.
  
  Numbers 2:17, 18
  Then the Tent of Meeting and the camp of the Levites will set out in the middle of the camps. They will set out in the same order as they encamp, each in his own place under his standard. On the west will be the divisions of the camp of Ephraim under their standard. The leader of the people of Ephraim is Elishama son of Ammihud.
  
  Numbers 2:25
  On the north will be the divisions of the camp of Dan, under their standard. The leader of the people of Dan is Ahiezer son of Ammishaddai.
  
  Numbers 2:31
  All the men assigned to the camp of Dan number 157,600. They will set out last, under their standards.
  
  Numbers 2:34
  So the Israelites did everything the LORD commanded Moses; that is the way they encamped under their standards, and that is the way they set out, each with his clan and family.
  
  Numbers 10:14
  The divisions of the camp of Judah went first, under their standard. Nahshon son of Amminadab was in command.
  
  Numbers 10:18
  The divisions of the camp of Reuben went next, under their standard. Elizur son of Shedeur was in command.
  
  Numbers 10:22
  The divisions of the camp of Ephraim went next, under their standard. Elishama son of Ammihud was in command.
  
  Numbers 10:25
  Finally, as the rear guard for all the units, the divisions of the camp of Dan set out, under their standard. Ahiezer son of Ammishaddai was in command.
  
  Psalm 74:4
  Your foes roared in the place where you met with us; they set up their standards as signs.
  
  Isaiah 31:9
  Their stronghold will fall because of terror; at sight of the battle standard their commanders will panic," declares the LORD, whose fire is in Zion, whose furnace is in Jerusalem.
  
  Jeremiah 4:21
  How long must I see the battle standard and hear the sound of the trumpet?
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  8

  Flags Banners Mentioned in the Bible

  by buffalosrfree in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a disagreement with an individual on whether or not there is any mention of banners and flags in the bible.

  i have found one example and that was at ps.

  20:5; if anyone else has anymore examples or ideas, that would help greatly.

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  betterdaze

  Banner (NIV)
  
  Exodus 17:15
  Moses built an altar and called it The LORD is my Banner.
  
  Numbers 2:2
  "The Israelites are to camp around the Tent of Meeting some distance from it, each man under his standard with the banners of his family."
  
  Psalm 20:5
  We will shout for joy when you are victorious and will lift up our banners in the name of our God. May the LORD grant all your requests.
  
  Psalm 60:4
  But for those who fear you, you have raised a banner to be unfurled against the bow. Selah
  
  Song of Solomon 2:4
  He has taken me to the banquet hall, and his banner over me is love.
  
  Song of Solomon 6:4
  [ Lover ] You are beautiful, my darling, as Tirzah, lovely as Jerusalem, majestic as troops with banners.
  
  Isaiah 5:26
  He lifts up a banner for the distant nations, he whistles for those at the ends of the earth. Here they come, swiftly and speedily!
  
  Isaiah 11:10
  In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious.
  
  Isaiah 11:12
  He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth.
  
  Isaiah 13:2
  Raise a banner on a bare hilltop, shout to them; beckon to them to enter the gates of the nobles.
  
  Isaiah 18:3
  All you people of the world, you who live on the earth, when a banner is raised on the mountains, you will see it, and when a trumpet sounds, you will hear it.
  
  Isaiah 30:17
  A thousand will flee at the threat of one; at the threat of five you will all flee away, till you are left like a flagstaff on a mountaintop, like a banner on a hill."
  
  Isaiah 49:22
  This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I will beckon to the Gentiles, I will lift up my banner to the peoples; they will bring your sons in their arms and carry your daughters on their shoulders.
  
  Isaiah 62:10
  Pass through, pass through the gates! Prepare the way for the people. Build up, build up the highway! Remove the stones. Raise a banner for the nations.
  
  Jeremiah 50:2
  "Announce and proclaim among the nations, lift up a banner and proclaim it; keep nothing back, but say, 'Babylon will be captured; Bel will be put to shame, Marduk filled with terror. Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror.'
  
  Jeremiah 51:12
  Lift up a banner against the walls of Babylon! Reinforce the guard, station the watchmen, prepare an ambush! The LORD will carry out his purpose, his decree against the people of Babylon.
  
  Jeremiah 51:27
  "Lift up a banner in the land! Blow the trumpet among the nations! Prepare the nations for battle against her; summon against her these kingdoms: Ararat, Minni and Ashkenaz. Appoint a commander against her; send up horses like a swarm of locusts.
  
  Ezekiel 27:7
  Fine embroidered linen from Egypt was your sail and served as your banner; your awnings were of blue and purple from the coasts of Elishah.
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  3

  just wondering

  by Hortensia in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i notice so many of you have pictures by your posts - how do you do that?

  i really like them and it's interesting to see how the name fits or doesn't fit the picture.

  if i knew how to do it, i'd put up a picture for me, too.. i wonder if any of you have favorite websites you would share?

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  betterdaze

  Hi Hortensia. If you enjoy earthsky, then you should check out the breathtaking images at:
  
  http://www.skyimagelab.com/
  
  And for more silly cats:
  
  http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/
  
  Enjoy!
  
  ~Sue
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  6

  The Pastor's Donkey

  by Mrs Smith in

  1. social
  2. humour

  received this via e-mail today anf thought i would share the pastor's donkey.

  the pastor entered his donkey in a race and it won.. the pastor was so pleased with the donkey that he.

  entered it in the race again, and it won again.. the local paper read: ..... .

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  betterdaze

  Delightful! Thanks for the laugh.
  
  ~Sue