Posts by Zone

5

Noahide Laws......The Witnesses are breaking one of them........

by Zone in

you know their stance on government .

you know what scriptures they present.

do they know they are going aganist a convenant god made with noah, which is unbreakable and uncondintial?.

Zone

....how would they finagle their away around this law then, knowing what we know (Unconditional, unbreakable conevenant.)

8

Can someone explain the Bibles inconsistent stance on SEX

by jwfacts in

i am trying to define what is acceptable sexual practice and find that using the bible as a guide is quite confusing and contradictory.

looking at the history of sexual encounters in the bible seems to indicate that multiple sex partners is acceptable, provided you can afford it, yes even in sex the rich have a different set of rules to the poor.

however adultery seems to consistently be thought of as wrong.. adam and eve - no rule is given, just that a man should stick with his wife.

Zone

Laws on sex were changed from the OT to the NT.

In the OT, Poligimiy was accepted. In the NW (now), it isn't.

You really have to read the Bible, in order, to get the full grasp on the sex laws, I stopped at Solomon on Monday, and Im im not mistaken, that dude had 700 wives, and Jehovah was OK with it.

5

Noahide Laws......The Witnesses are breaking one of them........

by Zone in

you know their stance on government .

you know what scriptures they present.

do they know they are going aganist a convenant god made with noah, which is unbreakable and uncondintial?.

Zone

You know their stance on government . You know what scriptures they present. Do they know they are going aganist a Convenant God made with Noah, which is unbreakable and uncondintial?

I am just going to summerize the 7 laws of the Covenant with Noah. Tell me your thoughts.

The seven laws (commonly rendered as Sheva Mitzvot Shel Bnei Noach) are:

Avodah zarah - Do not worship false gods.
Shefichat damim - Do not murder.
Gezel - Do not steal (or kidnap).
Gilui arayot - Do not be sexually immoral (forbidden sexual acts are traditionally interpreted to include incest, bestiality, male homosexual sex acts, i.e. sodomy, and adultery.)
Birkat Hashem - Do not "bless God" euphemistically referring to blasphemy.
Ever min ha-chai - Do not eat any flesh that was torn from the body of a living animal (given to Noah and traditionally interpreted as a prohibition of cruelty towards animals)
Dinim - Set up a system of honest, effective courts, police and laws.

15

Seven thousnd times omited..Hard to believe

by Poztate in

in the dec 1 wt first article on antichrists they state "adding to the confusion,many bible translators have taken god's name,jehovah,out of there translations,even though it occurs over 7,000 time in the original text!".

i am curious since the name jehovah is a recent invention or corruption which original texts could possibly contain this name 7,000 times?

it seems to me like they are trying to blow a lot of hot air at the faithful.. it also seemed to me that they were trying to draw a firmer link between "apostates" and the antichrist.

Zone

This can be squashed real quick if JWs actually smarten up and spend 70 bucks Greek NT and Hebrew OT and read stuff for themselves.

4

Holy Spirit

by sedrah in

is the holy spirit really a force or a person?.

if so why then the bible describes the holy spirit as a person who posseses intellect, emotions, and will?

he performs things that can be only performed by a person.

Zone

What on Earth are yout talking about? What you just said dosen't line up wiyth scripture at all.

#1, The written word has been avaiable WAY before the Apostles (The Old Testiment.)

#2, About doing some research on the Holy Spirit, using ALL of the Bibical scriptures, to see whatthe Bible says on it.

4

My letters and responces from and to a JW. (yes, its long)

by Zone in

i said when christ came and gave his life for us there was no longer a need for the mosaic law.

now, with that said, gentiles (non-jews) were never bound by the mosiac law.

Zone

What my goal is to get them to read everything in the Bible, and not have them just rely on what the Watchtower says. I am sure that JWs haven't even skimmed the Noahide Laws, becauseif they did, they would realize LAW #7 is a direct commandment from Jehovah...and they are VERY adiment aganist it. Mainley because I don't think none of them have never read it in depth.

4

My letters and responces from and to a JW. (yes, its long)

by Zone in

i said when christ came and gave his life for us there was no longer a need for the mosaic law.

now, with that said, gentiles (non-jews) were never bound by the mosiac law.

Zone

Her responces in Bold, my rebuttal in plain.

I really don't continue this because I know what the bible teaches. Take for example if someone told you they needed you to help spot out counterfeit money. Would you study all the fakes? Or would you study real money? Seriously, that is comparing apples to a tin can. I already believe that I have the true religion. Here is my opinion on this. Jehovah had no religion. Jesus had no religion. See where I'm getting at? I'm confident my church...who does not have a religious or denominational affiliation, is teaching me to the best of their abilities. That does NOT mean that A, I have to agree with every single thing that comes across the pulpit or B, they are 100% right on everything. That also doesn't mean that I cannot accept what other people say about the Bible who do not belong to the Church. I have family who is Baptist, Church of Christ, COGIC, etc. Does that mean they are wrong about everything? No. Does that mean they don't have nothing to teach me? Nope. We sit down at family get together's, and have discussions. Sometimes I am wrong on some thing, sometimes they are wrong. That doesn't mean that we don't speak, or talk about just because we feel like we know the truth, or being attacked, or etc. I don't need to go back and forth with you about tithing, Jews for Jesus (yes, I'm aware of this group of Jews who beleive in Jesus, although the vast majority of Jews DO NOT.), Orthodox Jews, etc. If you have questions about what the bible really teaches, you're very intelligent, and you know what's there. I don't wish to debate with you as I already know the truth. It's more than just that one group. And intelligence don't me a thing when it comes to reading the Bible. It can actually hinder you. if you allow it to. Satan has blinded the minds of people, just as 2 Corithinians 4:4 says "among whom the god of this system of things (satan) has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. .......You really don't want me to tell you my testimony. If you knew the things that Jehovah himself has done for me in the past 3 years since I have graduated....with me being a knucklehead for 2.98 of those 3 years, it will blow your mind. And my testimony is NOTHING compared to the testimonies of a lot of Christians out there who were in the darkness, but saw the light through 1 single act. Not by going to church, not by studying with a Witness, not being converted to Christianity by man, but by 1 divine intervention by Jehovah himself. And those testimonies by the others at my church makes me realize how blessed I am that Jehovah never allowed me to go through that stuff, even though I tried my best to jump into it. Just remember, that Jesus said his followers would be evident by their fruits. Yea. The way I received my Truck (you know the story) 5 years ago isn't a result of the fruits I sowed into the kingdom i guess....... You know that wasn't me. If you seen the Showcase Showdown, there is no way in 1 million years that something like that could happen and just be pure luck. If you see the fruits our entire ministry is reaping, and in turn, sowing back, you know its not just JWs out there doing the work for Jehovah. And it's not just my church. Joel Osteen, Houston Texas' Lakewood Church. TD Jakes, Dallas' Potters House. Clarence McClendon and his church in LA. That big church who took over the GW Forum in 2001. Crefflo Dollar and World Changers and Eddie Long and New Birth, both in Atlanta. John Hagee and Cornerstone Church in San Antonio. Joyce Meyer and her ministry based out of St. Louis. Rhema Bible Training Center in Tulsa, OK. Kenneth Copeland's Church in Ft. Worth. Paul White and her ministry in Tampa. I can go on and on, but the point I'm making is this...if you think JWs are the ONLY ones doing the work for Jehovah, and the only ones who are doing it right....you are sadly, sadly mistaken. What you need to meditate on is why I E-Mailed you, and look at all of the facts and opinions I gave you. No, I'm not going to argue. No I don't want to argue, but I want to know what the Bible really says on things. The only way to do that is to sit down and research for yourself. Read every single solitary scripture from Gen 1:1 to Revelation 22: 20 And yes, it can be done, there are tracts out there that shows you how to read the Holy Bible in one year, only for 15 minutes a day. I will leave you with this. Jehovah's people usually attracts others...and most times, they really don't have to say a word at all to attract.

4

My letters and responces from and to a JW. (yes, its long)

by Zone in

i said when christ came and gave his life for us there was no longer a need for the mosaic law.

now, with that said, gentiles (non-jews) were never bound by the mosiac law.

Zone

Here is how she repsonded to a few questions I had..

Her:
As far as the tithe, we don't require anyone to give a certain amount in harmony with
2 Corinthians 8:12 : For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have. As well as 2 Corinthians 9:7 which reads : Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Our entire religion is supported by voluntary donations. These donations have enabled the preaching work and bible based literature to be produced in over 400 languages, and in over 230 lands.
As for the consumption of pork, you are probably referring to the Mosaic Law, whereby pork was not an acceptable food. However, after Jesus died, the Mosaic Law was no longer binding. Ephesians 2:15 tells us: By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace;
Three years after Jesus's death, an angel reminded Peter that from God's standpoint, no food should be viewed as defiled. Acts 11:7-12 reads: 7 I also heard a voice say to me, ‘Rise, Peter, slaughter and eat!’ 8 But I said, ‘Not at all, Lord, because a defiled or unclean thing has never entered into my mouth.’ 9 The second time the voice from heaven answered, ‘You stop calling defiled the things God has cleansed.’ 10 This occurred for a third time, and everything was pulled up again into heaven. 11 Also, look! at that instant there were three men standing at the house in which we were, they having been dispatched from Caes·a·re´a to me. 12 So the spirit told me to go with them, not doubting at all. But these six brothers also went with me, and we entered into the house of the man.
Finally, as for the blood issue, yes, we abstain from blood in harmony with Acts 15:28, 29
"The holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!"
If one of Jehovah's Witnesses needed a blood transfusion, he/she would tell the doctor that he/she is open to all non-blood alternatives. I have an excellent video that actually discusses these treatments, and how the medical field is leaning toward non-blood alternatives because there are so many medical risks that come with transfusing blood. Non-blood alternatives are safer to the body. The medical field actually backs this up. Do you see how wise Jehovah God is?
Me:
I wanted to reply question for question, but I cannot and will not until we both study a few things (most of which I just came across today). #1, the Torah (1st 5 books of the Bible). #2, The 613 Commandments of the Mosiac Law (from what the Jews say, we are not, and really,cannot be bound by it....and you would understand once you read it.) #3, The Noahide Laws (7 Commandments that Gentiles are to follow, which includes some of the commandments that are in the Mosiac law.)
And, It is A LOT to cover from what I have skimmed, so just take your time with it.
Now, there are a one thing I am going to address.
Tithing is NOT part the Mosiac Law (98% sure on this), but it is a commandment given in Mal. 3:8-10. You are right on Offerings, but Tithing is not offerings. Tithes is the 10% of the income that we make that is Jehovah's, not ours. Tithing means Tenth Part, as you may know, and is to be taken literally. Some Christians usually gives the 1st 10% of their day, just to Jehovah (Praying, Praise, Worship, etc.) before going out for the day. Me personally, That's 1 reason why I like to attend EARLY morning service (7:45).
Her: (I think she felt offended by not agreeing with her off the bat)
Tithing is not literal, and you must have misread my email. I DID NOT say we are bound by the Mosaic Law. I said when Christ came and gave his life for us there was no longer a need for the Mosaic Law. The Jews continue to observe it because they don't beleive that the Christ was the Messiah.

I really don't know what you're trying to accomplish here. Do you want to learn what the bible really teaches? Or do you want to agree to disagree?
Me:

Tithing is not literal, and you must have misread my email. I DID NOT say we are bound by the Mosaic Law. I said when Christ came and gave his life for us there was no longer a need for the Mosaic Law. The Jews continue to observe it because they don't beleive that the Christ was the Messiah.

1st off, there are some Jews who do believe that he is. Now, with that said, Gentiles (non-Jews) were NEVER bound by the Mosiac Law. I will explain that later. I really don't know what you're trying to accomplish here. Do you want to learn what the bible really teaches? Or do you want to agree to disagree?

Correct me if I am wrong, but learning the Bible involves discussion on different viewpoints, not just someone saying something and the other person just sitting there listening. To learn the Bible, you got to know BOTH sides of the issue in discussion, and why someone believes what they believe in. Once you get that, then you go to scriptural references to see what the Bible says. You cannot force your beliefs on someone, and expect them to believe every word that comes out of your mouth...and that goes for me as well. You will be questioned on it. It is up to you (me included) to A, know your stuff, B, be receptive to a counterpoint and C, prepared to be wrong once in a while as no one is 100% on the Bible.. My Bishop says this often...."You are not obligated to believe a word that comes out of my mouth until you read it for yourself from the Bible." That is the reason I am a real stiggler on when it comes to what the Bible says. You cannot present a scripture or two, and call it done. You really have to go through the Bible and see EVERYTHING that is said on a particular item . Also, knowing that there are unintentional errors when translating from one language to another, you got to make sure that what you are reading is accurate. This is why I personally own a Greek New Testament Bible, trying to get a Hebrew Old Testament Bible, and own a Greek/Hebrew dictionary, Greek/Hebrew Concordance and a topical Concordance. These are tools that personally help me on seeing what the entire Bible says on a particular topic. To give you an example, Eph. 4:11-12. You know how it reads in the NWT. It reads the same in most other translations as well. If you have a Greek bible, read it in the greek and see how differently it reads from our English translations. Now, about the Tithing, What I did say is Tithing is NOT (1 of the 613 commandments) of the Mosiac Law. This is the argument I get when I bring up tithing (********* is one that told me that Tithing was apart of the Mosiac Law...so I researched it like I am suppose to). What we need to do 1st is to see what IS and IS NOT mentioned in the Mosiac Law...which means reading all 613 'commandments'. Once we do that, then we need to read what the Noahide Law, Abrahamic Covenant, and I think there are 1-2 more Covenants that I have missed in the Torah, that have slipped my mind. Then, and only then, we can really decide what Old Testament laws we are suppose to and not suppose to follow. Does that sound fair to you? I think she will interpted this as being harshed, but I praty that she will agree to do this research with me to see whatthe Bible really says on this.

2

Wounded Sheep. (Follow up to my last post)

by Zone in

i recieved a holy spirit check, while i was going to sleep, and i have to appolige for some things i have said.

the things i have said in the last post is not for anyone on this board.

it is intended for witnesses, and could be a help for those who are still trying to minister to the jws.

Zone

I recieved a Holy Spirit check, while I was going to sleep, and I have to appolige for some things I have said. The things I have said in the last post is NOT for anyone on this board. It is intended for witnesses, and could be a help for those who are still trying to minister to the JWs. I made an error that I thought that everyone on here are still Christians, and that is not the case. A lot of people on here are EX JWS just trying to piece there life together after the fact, and really do not wanna her anyone saying some of the stuff I said. It was just the wrong time to say it.

9

The Local KH is really going to hate me for this (Verses included, LONG.)

by Zone in

i'm launching a out out blitzkreg on these people, for two reasons only.. 1. to get them saved.. 2, and if they want to, get them holy ghost filled.. 3 years of research, and it's pretty sad that most of these people won't even see the promise land, because alot of them deny being saved, and refsue to recieve salvation when offered.

it's also pretty sad that these people the church is apart of false religion (conderticts ephisians 4:11 and really would put ezekiel 38-39 null invoid), the holy spirit is god's active force (multiple verses).

most of them will evenrefuse to talk to you, if you ask a question that bad mouthes the watchtower society.

Zone

No, you`re not. So you should stop it right now, and do something useful.Focus on your education, and go volunteer at a homeless shelter or something.

Who says I don't do this?