i'm sure many of you are familiar with that line.
it continues to be a card played frequently by the wt society.. is there any truth to it?
"apostates" do tend to tear down.
I have heard this many times, including "where are we to go to?", and "if JW's don't have the Truth, who does?" It is obviously wrong and it's questionable how much you can reason with people who come out with something so unreasonable.
One argument is that from ~100-1900 AD there was no organization that had God's blessing under current JW beliefs. So there is no guarantee such a thing exists today.
you positively will not die.
for god knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like god, knowing good and bad.".
did satan actually lie to eve?
I read an old thread on this recently.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/35970/1/Satan-didnt-lie
i am trying to prove or disprove a statement that i read today.
i read a statement by someone that i trust that the wtbts purposely distorts the number of anointed left alive in their reports.. i used to be a jehovah's witness.
i know all of their teachings very well.
I believe that partakers from outside the congregation are counted, and someone would only not be counted if they were disfellowshipped. I have no way to prove this however; it is just a pale memory of what I have seen in the Watchtower publications.
the new wt is up.
the worst article is the first one, a non-study article.
shows pictures of a kid, looks like he is 10 years old.
What a nasty little cult. I'm sure that they are getting panicked and nastier to try to hold on to their members. I don't remember ever seeing such strong direction that children of that age should get baptized.
There will definitely be children of the same age as the poor child displayed in these pictures whose parents are JWs and who is not baptized. I can imagine the guilt they will feel at reading this article.
What about the dumb-ass experiences of those who got baptised and didn't regret it? What about those who did regret it? We don't see those experiences!!
I noticed that this article in a typical way is devious and illogical. It is trying to encourage children to get baptized and explains the qualifications. But nearly all JW children would meet those qualifications. They are actually saying, if you meet these, not that you may get baptised, but that you should get baptized.
does it make sense that after adam ate of the fruit god would condemn all of mankind until jesus sacrificed himself?
does 1 perfect person's sin really equal 1 perfect person's sacrifice plus billions of imperfect peoples death and suffering?.
jesus' sacrifice to save mankind really was not a sacrifice at all if he knew he would be raised up after 3 days.. .
Never made sense to me either. I always had it on hold as one of those things that might make sense at a future time.
*** km 10/91 p. 7 question box ***.
question box.
should publishers and pioneers feel obligated to contribute to the societys worldwide work each time they obtain literature for field service at the kingdom hall?.
In my experience we very rarely got contributions at the door.
in the may 15, 2011, pg.
23 public edition watchtower, in the article 'o the depth of god's wisdom', there is a small footnote that essentially does away with an entire 1983 study article worth of material regarding the meaning of the olive tree, spoken about by the apostle paul:.
(romans 11:17,18 nwt) 17 however, if some of the branches were broken off but you, although being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became a sharer of the olives root of fatness, 18 do not be exulting over the branches.
Hardly a progressive understanding, huh?
I just read the full chapter to try and get a sense of what was going on in this passage (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2011&version=NIV) and, if my interpretation is correct, it is rather shocking. It is saying that the Jews continue to have a special role in God's purpose!
To consider the society's argument for why the old type doctrine is being abandoned, I cannot see anything about Kings and Priests in Romans 11. By the same argument the whole concept of "spiritual Israel" is bunk. However, someone please correct me if there is something in the context that I am unaware of that would make this argument not worthless.
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.”
The wild shoot are Gentile converts. The root is the faithful Jewish remnant. Rather than the Jews being abandoned by God (as was my understanding as a JW), the Christian church is portrayed as a direct continuation of the Jewish nation. I recommend reading the whole chapter which would seem to make this quite clear.
I do not believe in any of this but this shows that the Bible is susceptible of various interpretations.
Edit: snowbird, you seem to have come with the same point as me while I was writing this post.
back when i was about 14 i was approached by an elder that i considered a friend.
in hindsight it is obvious that he was "assigned to me" to encourage baptism.
he told me that he got baptized because it was the "right thing to do.
I was never baptized. I've heard from others too that they felt no different afterwards. I never got baptized because I never felt like I understood the doctrines properly and how they came from the Bible. I blamed myself for this. I felt like I should be doing more personal study and Bible reading, but always procrastinated. What lesson does this teach me - that conscientiousness is a bad character trait? I also believed, based on Watchtower literature, that a decision to get baptized should be motivated by a deep love for Jehovah, which I did not have. Guess I was just too intellectually honest to get baptized.
I didn't have a lot of spoken pressure but it was always on my mind. It was something unspoken, which made me uncomfortable and afraid when the subject might come up between me and my parents. I postponed baptism long through my teens until I left for good.
this is what the guest speaker was saying at my wife's hall yesterday.
she and i was babysitting our niece and since she had three kids going to the hall with her (including my two daughters) i figured i'd go with her to help out.
they were rambuctious and wild to say the least.. while i was in the hallway with my youngest daughter, i continued to listen to the speaker talk.
I agree completely and lately when I have been thinking about this it makes me angry. I too was subject to these threats as a child, in talks from the platform, and was genuinely worried. For an adult, as the years go on and nothing happens, the threat loses its strength even it is not abandoned intellectually, but it is still there.
It's a horrible thing to do to someone. All that dread, for nothing. I spent my childhood procrastinating about getting baptized and feeling guilty for not doing more personal study and Bible reading. After losing my trust in the JW organization, a large part of my past is lost to me, and I wonder what is right or wrong.
2011 yearbook, singing praise to jehovah, p.17-21:.
singing songs of praise to jehovah is an integral part of our worship.
at the 2009 conventions, therefore, god's servants were overjoyed when they were told of a new songbook, sing to jehovah.
Yes WTWizard, that was my thought exactly. "Where appropriate choruses have been added to provide meaningful repetition of key thoughts." - in other words, brainwashing.
What has been the reaction to the new songbook, Sing to Jehovah? This letter from a sister is typical of hundreds of letters of appreciation that have been received: “Please allow me to begin this letter by thanking you for the beautiful new songs in our new songbook. They are moving, faith-strengthening, and comforting – a delightful gift from Jehovah.”
I take exception to them quoting this letter. They have not stated that the new song book has been divinely inspired, technically speaking, but it was their decision to quote a letter making this claim, with implicit approval. Their motivations are transparent.
