Posts by david

19

Disassociating==shunning...yes or no???

by sadiejive in

jw
friends

i have had several here tell me that if try to disassociate yourself from the org that you will be subject to shunning.

is this true?.

i discussed this issue with the witnesses with whom i study.

david_10

Hello,Sadie. Hope you're doing OK. You said......

Perhaps,he misunderstood my qestion....

No,he did not misunderstand your question. He knows exactly what you're asking and he's hedging. The end result of disfellowshipping and disassociating are the very same. And it all depends on whether you are baptized or not. What Mulan said a little bit ago is true. (Just a suggestion,but you might go back and read some of Mulan's old posts. She has apparently had a lot of experience and is one of the wiliest cats in the jungle. Her female perspective on the organization might help you a lot.} But everything changes after baptism. Before baptism,one is shown love and compassion and understanding for the human weaknesses and foibles that one may have. After baptism,they own you and you'll have to tow the line. And there is not much room for error. So,please, ask the elder a lot more questions and don't be shy about cornering him,if that's what it takes,to get a straight answer.

David

16

The Govering Body....victims?

by Preston in

jw
friends

the governing body... victims of the misinformation that has gone back many, many years?

they might not be as entirely evil as many of you have pointed out.

even hitler believed the misinformation that he so strongly promoted, an anti-semitism that stretched back centuries.

david_10

The only thing that I disagree with Ray Franz about in "Crisis of Conscience" is the statement he makes that we are all "victims of victims." I suspect,though,that he is intentionally cutting the Society and Governing Body a little slack,which is a lot more than they do for him. I'm positive that the Governing Body and a few of the higher-ups at Bethel aren't victims at all-----They are victimizers and perpetrators of lies,and they HAVEto know it. There's no way that they couldn't. I agree with joy2bfree in her assessment of what goes on in the ivory tower, except I don't think that they are ignorant about the falsehoods they teach at all. They are fully aware that they don't have the "truth", but their only goal is to preserve the Organization and their way of life which,while not wantonly luxurious,is still plenty comfy. And they do it by being "mass controllers."

David

50

Worried about my Dad in hospital :(

by Simon in

jw
friends

we visited angharad's parents at the weekend and got a call on sunday night from her sister who'd been called by my sister as they hadn't been able to contact us .... the message was not a happy one:.

my dad has had a heart attack and was in intensive care in hospital.. it was a while before i managed to speak to anyone over there with people probably out but i eventually spoke to his wife who says he's doing ok and has now been moved to the main ward but is being kept in as you would expect.

he may have to be moved to calgary for some investigation / tests.. he had heart surgery about 15 years ago and i think 4 of his 5 bypasses have failed so he has to take quite a bit of medicine for pain and stuff.

david_10

Hello,Simon. Sorry to hear about your Dad and I hope everything works out. If anything positive can come from this,maybe it will bring you a little closer to your family and get you off the black sheep list. Take care and let us know what happens.

David

1

Any one have problems with Kids??

by lydia in

jw
friends

has anyone ever done a study to find out if the children of witnesses have more behavor problems than other??

does anyone have any experience with children who are destructive?

?

david_10

Lydia. I'm not a professional and so I haven't done a "study" on the subject,but my own experience and observation over many years leads me to the conclusion that witness kids definitely have more behavior problems than their worldly counterparts. This is generally in the area of self-esteem and fitting in socially with others, whether at school or,later on,at work. I haven't noticed that witness kids are more destructive than other kids and probably they are even less so. Probably due to the fact they are so inhibited,which I guess can be a good thing sometimes. But,in the the case of 3 or 4 kids that come to mind off hand,I've observed that if they do rebel against their parents and upbringing,they can be extremely destructive, both to themselves and others. But this is a very complicated subject and these are just my unscientific observations.

David

20

Let's meditate on these scriptures

by YoYoMama in

jw
friends

2 peter 2:1-22.

2 however, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you.

these very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.

david_10

seven006

I know that YoYo is very capable of speaking for herself and I apologize for butting in. But in case she has dropped off this thread,she indicated in a recent post that she is a woman. As to the reason why she posts here: I think she is counting time.

David

10

House where Joel started his time every morn.

by joelbear in

jw
friends

this house was about 1/2 mile from the kingdom hall.

no one ever answered the door.

it was a favorite place for us to start our time.. you know all of yall had one.. joel.

david_10

r51785 You brought up something that I hadn't thought of: I'll bet anything that yoyo and a few others are counting their time. Well,I don't blame them. There's so much pressure to make that time report look good that you'll do anything. I think I've heard that the Society doesn't emphasize hours like they used to,but I don't believe it. They have their ways,subtle as they may be. Wouldn't it be funny if their statistics started going up because of this board?

David

29

Have they sunk to new lows?

by duped in

jw
friends

my husband came home from the grocery store yesterday (christmas eve).

and said he saw a witness couple driving around the parking lot handing out mags from their car window.

i mean how lazy is that?

david_10

I read the comments that Proplog2 wrote and technically,Proplog,you are correct. There is no question that Christmas is a pagan-based holiday and I personally have no desire to celebrate it. In the 15 years or so since I've left the organization,I have never wanted to celebrate any of the holidays. However,I would like to point out what you are missing in your assessment of people who choose to do so: One of the main reasons that witnesses leave the organization is to escape the dogmatism and iron-fisted control that the Society is so famous for. When someone is finally on the outside and breathing a little fresh air for a change,one of the ways that they like to enjoy their new-found freedom is to celebrate Christmas. There is no law against this and they aren't hurting anybody. If someone wanted to celebrate Christmas in the middle of July,there is no still no law against this and they still aren't hurting anybody. So I just mind my own business and let others do what they want. Breathing a little fresh air of freedom is not returning to vomit. So lighten up a little. If we wanted more dogmatism,we wouldn't need to come here----we could just go back to meetings.

David

10

House where Joel started his time every morn.

by joelbear in

jw
friends

this house was about 1/2 mile from the kingdom hall.

no one ever answered the door.

it was a favorite place for us to start our time.. you know all of yall had one.. joel.

david_10

Hi,Joel. When I was pioneering,I had several houses just like that. Back in the early 70's,pioneers had to get in 100 hours a month and you learned ALL the tricks. Many times,I would get so desperate for time that I would go back and forth among these houses knowing that I would never have to talk to anybody. I know all the neighbors probably saw me and it's a wonder nobody ever called the police. I remember the struggle for time would get so fierce that toward the end of the month I would go to the train station and bus station around midnight to pass out magazines,usually by leaving them on a bench. You got to where you would do anything to get that time in. It was the only thing that mattered. Visit someone in the hospital or nursing home? Only if I counted my time. Love had nothing to do with it. And it never dawned on me how fanatical and pointless it was. And all my pioneer partners,(with one exception,but that's another story),were the same way. We all thought it was a privelege to put ourselves through that torture. After all,1975 was bearing down on us and we were going to die if we didn't. I think back on those times and I just can't believe I did it. Oh well,live and learn.

David

8

Are witnesses getting lazy?

by david_10 in

jw
friends

thank you for the warm welcome i received when i made my first post last week.

it is a beautiful christmas day here,more like early autumn than the beginning of winter.

so i was a little surprised when i drove by my old kingdom hall a little after 9:00 am and saw that there were no cars parked in the lot----no one had met for field service.

david_10

Hello,Everyone. Thank you for the warm welcome I received when I made my first post last week.

It is a beautiful Christmas day here,more like early autumn than the beginning of winter. So I was a little surprised when I drove by my old Kingdom Hall a little after 9:00 AM and saw that there were no cars parked in the lot----no one had met for field service. Since two congregations share the hall,I would have thought that SOMEONE would want to go out. Maybe enough to make up one at least one car group. When I was an active witness,we always put forth a concerted effort to witness on all the holidays;I remember many times that I was assigned to lead the charge. But this has been 15+ years ago,so maybe things have changed. Has the Society decided to respect other people's privacy and not bother them when they are obviously wanting to spend time with their families? Or is this another sign of apathetic publishers who,given the chance,would rather sleep late than share in the most urgent work in human history? Anyone know?

David

43

Newbie alert !!! Just wanted to say hello...

by sadiejive in

jw
friends

i came here by chance...looking for none other than jw material:) i am currently studying with jw's and attend the kh but am not baptized, as are none of the members of my fam...yet.

i've been studying for almost 4 years with the witnesses.

i am confused...that's the simplest way of putting it.

david_10

Hello,Everyone. I've been hanging around the discussion board for several months and greatly enjoy all the posting and keeping up with the latest threads. I've never registered because I felt that everything that could be said was being covered well enough without my meager contributions. After all this time,I feel that I know everyone on the board pretty good-----certainly a lot better than everyone knows me.
But I'll save my more formal introductions for another occasion. The reason for signing up now after all this time is that I just read Sadiejive's post and it really breaks my heart. I don't think that I can add anything to what's already been posted,but I just want to tell you,Sadie,that everything written by prisca,outnfree, freepeace,waiting,LB,princess and many others is the truth and not exaggerated at all. I think that you should especially go back and carefully consider what Farkel wrote about what it's like to grow up in the "truth." Believe me,he is not "whining",as he put it. I'm amazed at how closely his life experiences parallel my own. At 49,I'm only slightly younger than he is,and even down to the piano playing,we seem to have a lot in common. I was a third generation witness,and so I accepted all my travails as a normal part of growing up and by the time I reached High School,I accepted everything as "suffering for righteousness sake",which is what witnesses do a lot of. I'll tell you you this,though: I learned how to fight. Through elementary school and middle school especially,it was a rare day that I was not attacked and forced to defend myself. I was the first witness to go through the school system in this area in many years,so I absorbed a lot of the punishment that my 2 younger brothers and other witness kids did not have to endure;but you can be sure,Sadie,that your kids will have plenty of trouble,even if it never turns violent. I was (am) blessed with 4 kids of my own----2 girls that came close together,and then after several years,my wife and I had 2 boys real close together. The girls were raised "in the truth." By the time the boys came along,we had had stopped associating and they never were around it,at least very little. Now here's what's interesting: The girls have a lot of emotional problems and don't fit in well with others in general.Both have to take anti-depressants to get by. But those boys!! They love being alive! Both are in high school and they aren't perfect,mind you,but they have dreams and goals and see nothing standing in their way. They are enjoying their lives and look forward to facing every day. Now I have to ask myself: "Why is there so much difference between the girls and the boys?" The only logical explanation is that one set of kids was raised "in the truth." The other set wasn't. I discussed this with my mother and she thought for a long time that that it was simply a matter of boys being different from girls. Maybe,but I don't think so. Not even my mother thinks that anymore. Both of my parents,by the way,have left the organization in the past year after more than 50 years of faithful service. This has been due largely to many negative experiences and reading the posts that I've printed out for them from this board. I also gave them "Crises of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom." I highly recommend both of these books if you really want to know beforehand what you're getting into.
Anyway,Sadie,this has gone on long enough,so I'll end it. I hope that this thread hasn't run out of steam yet and that you'll get my somewhat opinionated viewpoint;but,it is a viewpoint tempered by long experience. And I just want to emphasize what has already been brought out:be very sure that you know what you're doing,because you can't take it back once you're baptized. Don't let your husband or your study conductor or anyone make the decision for you. Make sure that you and you alone want this for you and your kids lives. Good luck.

David

david_10

Posts by david_10