Posts by david

4

What To Think About John Cages' Opus 4'33"?

by Rapunzel in

jw
friends

john cage composed 4'33" [four minutes, thirty three seconds] in 1952. for cage, 4'33" represented the epitome of aleatoric - that is to say random or chance - music; it was the epitome of his notion that any sound constituted, or could possibly constitute, music.

4'33" was composed for any instrument, or any combination of instruments; and the score specifically instructs the musician(s) not to play their instrument for the entire four-minute-thirty-three-seconds duration of the piece.

they do not play so much as one single note.

david_10

"Opinions on Cage run the whole spectrum between genius and fraud. What's your opinion of him and what he does?"

I think that John Cage was a visionary who was (and still is) light years ahead of his time. For example, he was scratching turntables 50 years before hip-hop made it popular. When it comes to avant-garde art in all it's forms, I have a simple rule: If an artist can draw a horse that looks like a horse, then I'm inclined to give him my attention and consider what he has to say. Too often, an avant-garde artist has no talent and uses the medium to slop paint around and run over it with a truck and hope to be hailed as a genius. Occasionally, the ruse works. Jackson Pollack, Andy Warhol, Marcel Duchamp--------------they, among many others, could draw a horse that looked like a horse. I think they had a statement to make, and I try to understand them. Most, I'm afraid, have no talent whatsoever.

Same with avant-garde music: If an avant-garde musician can play a Mozart sonata and do pretty good with it, then I'm inclined to give him my attention. John Cage could play a Mozart sonata and do pretty good with it. So could Phillip Glass, Terry Riley, Charles Wuorinen, among many others. But most probably just bang around and splice tape and play records backwards and hope to be hailed as a modern genius for our times.

I have a record of 4'33" and I heard it performed one time by an extremely good pianist. At first, the tension is palpable. Soon it become almost unbearable. By the time it's over, nerves are frayed and everybody is pretty much on edge. 4 minutes and 33 seconds is the cut-off----------------------to go much more than that is asking for trouble.

I think it's interesting that over the years the John Cage Estate has brought several lawsuits against composers and even rock bands who incorporate silence in their music. In at least one case, the composer had to pay out a couple hundred thousand dollars for his minute of silence. I'm not sure what to think about that.

David

55

Who is your favorite Artist?

by coffee_black in

jw
friends

there are many artists whose work i love, but i think my all time favorite is sargent... my second home, growing up, was the museum of fine arts in boston, and additionally, the gardner museum close by... both have important sargents... the way he painted light was liquid and sensual... a master at making the complex look effortless....he had it all.... http://jssgallery.org/major_paintings/major.htm.

so whose art do you love?.

coffee .

david_10

"I've just always associated him with late night diners."

Yep-----that's "Nighthawks."

Speaking of Picasso's Blue Period, what do you make of "The Tragedy?" I have it (or rather a print of it) hanging in my studio and I'm often pondering it trying to figure out what's going on. I don't guess anyone ever has, have they?

David

55

Who is your favorite Artist?

by coffee_black in

jw
friends

there are many artists whose work i love, but i think my all time favorite is sargent... my second home, growing up, was the museum of fine arts in boston, and additionally, the gardner museum close by... both have important sargents... the way he painted light was liquid and sensual... a master at making the complex look effortless....he had it all.... http://jssgallery.org/major_paintings/major.htm.

so whose art do you love?.

coffee .

david_10

I wonder why no one has mentioned Edward Hopper? Probably because he was a little on the grimey side, which was typical of the Ash Can School. His studies of human isolation are, to me, very moving and disturbing--------------------------people always together, yet always apart. I have read that Hitchcock was an great admirer of Hopper and that he had his characters interact with each other in ways that he observed in Hopper's paintings. Also, the mansion in "Psycho" was a replica of "House by the Railroad."

"Nighthawks" is Hopper's most famous work, but my favorite is "New York Movie."

My vote goes to Edward Hopper.

David

28

Cola information what will you do???

by zeroday in

jw
friends

cola information, what will you do with it?.

my doctor has this info on his website i thought it was interesting, being diabetic i only drink diet soda but it really makes you think.... from october 24, 2007 nutrition researchers posted in .

childrens health, food science research.

david_10

I wouldn't argue the data-----------------------it's probably correct.

But what's life without 1 or 2 bad habits? As far as soda is concerned:

It's not near as bad as tobacco, where you can literally count the minutes that fall off your life with every cigarette. I've never known anybody who went to jail because they couldn't control their soft drink habit. I've never heard of anybody lose their job or destroy their marriage & family. I've never known anyone who got their name printed in the newspaper and was ordered into a 12 step rehab program. No, I think there's a lot of things a whole lot worse than a soft drink.

Personally, Dr. Pepper is my drug of choice. Ahhhh....................that first swig of the day------------------------it has a kick like a mule.

David

69

My Husband found out about this site...

by cognac in

jw
friends

i told him that i have no intention of leaving.... he told me that i was like "a dog returning to its vomit"... .

david_10

Hello again, Cognac. Yes, be gentle, gentle, gentle. Good counsel. I would use the word "discreet." Straight from the dictionary:

"Discreet 1 : having or showing discernment or good judgment in conduct and especially in speech."

In other words: keep your mouth shut. Don't pick a fight, don't be baited into one. It will get you nothing, and probably do more harm than good. I'm sure sorry that things aren't going so well. Give it time. Breaking down the wall that all witnesses shield themselves with is about the hardest thing you'll ever do. You think that since you've done it, that it should be easy for everyone else to do it, too, especially your husband. Not so. Give it time.

On a side note, it appears that everything is falling apart at the seams as far as your original plan. Are you still trying to pioneer and keep up appearances? After reading the latest here, I don't see how you'll be able to pull it off for much longer.

David

23

Does anyone have knowledge of Vinyl LP's/all classical music some unopened?

by restrangled in

jw
friends

an uncle of mine bought a house from an older lady and she left about 300 lps all classical music.

all in excellent condition.

i have searched the net and am trying to figure out what to do with them.

david_10

Hello again, Restrangled. The music of Anton Webern is definitely an acquired taste. Drop the needle anywhere at random, and you'll grasp the truth of that very quickly. Is this a collector's item? To some, it would be. Although most people don't care for the serialist composers like Webern, Schoenberg, Stockhausen, to name a few, there are others who feel that this is the best music. These are the people that you need to reach, and they are, generally speaking, intelligent and affluent and don't mind paying for something if they want it. I think you've got something that will go for a higher than average price. Maybe a lot higher. The site that Hillary mentioned might be the way to go. Even good ol' Ebay would probably reach the buyer you're looking for.

David

Edited to add: I would be interested, but I've got all the Webern I need.

23

Does anyone have knowledge of Vinyl LP's/all classical music some unopened?

by restrangled in

jw
friends

an uncle of mine bought a house from an older lady and she left about 300 lps all classical music.

all in excellent condition.

i have searched the net and am trying to figure out what to do with them.

david_10

Hello, Restrangled. As an LP afficionado and collector, I might make a contribution to your thread. I have about 3000 LPs which cover all genres---classical , jazz/blues, pop/rock, all eras, even some 10" from the 40's. Some are in pristine condition, some are pretty ragged, most are somewhere in between; I try to get around to playing all of them every 4 or 5 years, but I'm running behind at the moment.

Based on my observation and experience, the published price guides aren't really worth that much. I have a much better way of determining the value: Basically, your record is worth what you say it's worth. If you say that an album is worth $30, then as far as I'm concerned, it's worth $30. You just have to find somebody who will give you the money. If you can find somebody who agrees with you and will give you the money, then everybody's happy. But that's always been my problem---------it's hard to find someone who will agree with you. When you get right down to it, the record is worth what someone will pay you for it. Usually, that's not much. Often, it's nothing.

I think Bobld has probably got the best idea------------------------put them on Ebay and see what happens. Another idea is to take a few over to a local record shop and see what the proprietor will offer for the whole lot. He will probably offer you something like 20% of what he thinks he can move them for, so you could use that formula to get an idea as to what the collection might be worth in your area. If this music doesn't suit your taste and you don't think you would enjoy playing them, selling the whole lot at once would probably be the easiest and fastest way to dispose of them. The record store would probably recover it's initail investment fairly quickly----a few months, maybe. After that, everthing would be profit. But I guarantee you that years from now, some of those records will still be on the shelves.

I wish I were somewhere close----------------------------I'd love to go through them. But I probably wouldn't pay you what they're worth.

Good luck.

David

40

2nd AA meeting. Would value opinions

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

i went to my 2nd aa meeting last night and came away with doubts as to whether this would work for me, so would value peoples opinion especially those who attend aa.. there were one or two there that were quite evangelical, which obviously works for them.

also within the program there is alot of emphasis on god or a higher power.

for many this higher power is the group itself, yet for some it is god.. i spoke to someone sitting by me about this who said that to make sobriety sometimes you have to fake it and go along with the god thing.. at the end of meetings there is a short prayer which i do not want to take part in.

david_10

((LearningToFly)) Your post was very touching, and I hope you're over the hump. Hang in there.

David

216

I'm a Pioneer Married To a Wonderful Brother Reaching Out to be an MS...

by cognac in

and petrified... i just recently became a pioneer and always had nagging questions in the back of my mind.

so, i decided that when i have get a study i would research all the questions as i go along so as to prove everything in the truth... i got 4 studies in about 2 months.

all was fine, until i reached i think chapter 6 in the bible teach book about the resurrection.

david_10

Welcome to the board, Cognac-----we're glad to have you.

Now, to get down to business:

I haven't read all of this massive thread, but I've read enough to get the gist of it. As a former pioneer, I can tell you that you're in a fix: You don't have the heart to go on, but you can't quit, either. The old Chinese proverb about having a tiger by the tail is appropriate here: no matter how bad you want to, you can't let go.......

I would stop right now but I just started and got kind of in an argument with the elders to let me (they made me wait because they didn't think I'd be able to do it) and it would be like me telling them they were right but they weren't. I don't want to for other reasons. My husband kind of told him off and got him into a bit of trouble over the whole thing so for me to step down now would be like me saying he was right and my husband was wrong. There is no way I'm doing that with the way my husband got involved with the whole thing.

You're screwed. I've been there and I know how trapped you're feeling. "Trapped" is an understatement. I also know that if you don't do something soon you're possibly going to have a nervous breakdown, maybe even becoming suicidal. Believe me, it happens.

And so, this is, I believe, your most immediate problem: Pioneering, especially if it's only half-hearted, will sap the the life right out of you. This is the fix you're in, and you must take care of it.

I don't know if this has been suggested, but you need a plan, and this might work: Hang on till August if you must. But pad your hours!! The whole thing is a big hoax anyway, and what you would be attempting to do would be for the purpose of survival and self-preservation. So, (let's go ahead and call it what it is) lie about your hours. It's all a big lie anyway, and lying on your time slip is preferable to lying to the householders in field service, in my opinion. For every one hour spent, add a couple. Same with return visits and placements. This will get it down to something that you can manage, and you'll be able to keep up appearances and maintain your sanity along the way. If the target date is August, then go ahead and report your quotas for the first couple of months. Then start tapering off and report less and less. If the congregation continues to approach you for all the favors and chores that need doing (and I'm sure it will), you can can honestly tell the supplicants that you are simply too busy and that someone else can "enjoy" the "privilege." By August, you can go to the elders and humbly admit that they were right and you need to be deleted from the rolls and they'll understand. Then you can start to fade; that's how I left the organization, and, for most people, it's probably the best way. The alternative is not good at all, especially if you want to maintain family relationships. Also, (and this is very important) keep your mouth shut and do not confide in anyone-----------------you'll be in front of a committee so fast that you won't know what hit you.

Maybe this would work for you, or maybe you can adapt the ideas here into something you can use, but you do need to get a plan in place and start moving toward a goal. Then again, everybody's always got good advice------------------everybody's fraught with good advice; but as often as not, it's you---the one who's actually in the trenches struggling for a solution---it's you who has to work it out in your own way, on your own terms.

I wish you well, Cognac-------------------my heart goes out to you.

David

111

New Yearbook stats for 2007 now out!

by Dogpatch in

the report is out!.

http://www.watchtowernews.org/2007report.pdf.

cooking the books with 3% increase??.

david_10

I have always felt that the Society is basically honest in compiling and publishing their statistics. The reason I believe this is because of the Anointed numbers: the fact that this number went up again, as it usually does, looks real bad. It proves that Jehovah is either a poor judge of character, or that the whole doctrine of a diminishing anointed remnant is a big crock. It's one or the other, pick one. If the Society was going to lie about their stats, then I would think that they would lie about that one. And it would be real easy: Just report a 1% or 2% decrease every year and they could go for decades and no one would be the wiser. But when it shows an increase, then they report it as such.

So I think that the society is basically honest with their numbers. Where the big discrepancy comes in is the raw data that that is sent in by the individual congregations. Having been an appointed servant in 3 congregations in my time, and having seen the numbers that were tallied and sent to Brooklyn, I know for a fact that they border on the absurd. I suppose that the actual publisher count might be hard to fake, but everything else--------the hours, placements, studies, return visits, etc.-------------------is ridiculous. And I guess that it wouldn't even be that hard to fake the publisher count. Just have your 6 year old child fill out a time slip. That's pretty phoney, in my opinion, and it used to happen all the time. I'm sure it still does.

Excellent post, GaryBuss, as always. But I would also disagree with that one point: I seriously doubt that the governing body will ever do away with the field service requirement. That one single activity is the main way they have of keeping the flock under their thumb. They know that it doesn't work, just like the sound cars don't work; they know it is a useless waste of time; they know that riding around in a car for 2 hours and wasting gas and sitting in Duncan Donuts is not zealous Kingdom preaching. But it's the main measuring stick they have of gauging the spirituality of the flock. For the brothers, it is the "cash" that is used to buy their way up through the ranks. It supplies the guilt trip needed to keep the R & F in line and under their control. It also keeps the witnesses on an adversarial footing with the world and gives them a reason to push a lawsuit to the Supreme Court every few years, thereby kicking the devil into a corner where he belongs. No, field service is just too powerful of a tool to be dispensed with, and I doubt if they ever will. So everybody will just keep on playing the game, which is riding around in the car, dumping magazines at the laundry mat, sending the numbers to Brooklyn, whereupon the Society chortles about "Jehovah's rich blessing."

Great work, jgnat--------------------------very impressive. You know, I also would've thought that the internet has been having more of an effect, but it might not be as much as we thought. Maybe we can figure out a more plausible explanation.

David

david_10

Posts by david_10