Posts by sparky1

192

Question for SBF

by Fisherman in

slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

- this thread is your if you want it..

sparky1

"Newspapers were seen as profitable." - shepherdless

Newspapers made their money from advertising. Watchtower and Awake NEVER had the luxury of income from advertising.

192

Question for SBF

by Fisherman in

slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

- this thread is your if you want it..

sparky1

"Sparky1, are you saying that they didn't make a lot of money from their literature?" - slimboyfat

I never made any such a claim. Anywhere at any time.

"The Watchtower has lost it's MAIN (italics and bold mine) source of income from book publishing, and failed to find a substitute. In some ways JWs were extremely fortunate as a religious denomination that had a lucrative publishing empire as its support."- slimboyfat

I am trying to counter your claim that the revenue from the publications was their main and lucrative source of income. $50,000,000.00 a year is hardly the MAIN source of operating revenue for an organization as large as WATCHTOWER.

192

Question for SBF

by Fisherman in

slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

- this thread is your if you want it..

sparky1

First of all shepherdless, you are beclouding the issue by NOT following my line of reasoning and introducing a counter argument based on a date that you choose. Slimboyfat stated that the 1970/80's were WATCHTOWER's 'heyday' (so to speak) and was the "all time boom in Watchtower sales." To be FAIR to slimboy, I went right to the middle of his DATE claims and chose 1980 as the halfway point between 1970 and the end of the 1980's. I took my data from that year as a 'mean' (although not purely scientific) to counter his argument. Using your form of reasoning, I could go back to the early 1970's and show that they were making even less money then because they produced even less magazines. But lets go with your $2,000,000.00 a week for the sake of argument. That's still only (and I say that with a grain of salt) $104,000,000.00 a year in revenue from publications and that does not take into account the cost of producing and shipping the literature. That is GROSS sales before the 'cost of doing business' is figured in.

192

Question for SBF

by Fisherman in

slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

- this thread is your if you want it..

sparky1

"I've searched for information on downsizing to put it into some kind of perspective. One example is General Motors which experienced poor sales and cut its workforce by around 20% in 2008/9. It needed a government bailout to keep operating............Who is going to bail them (WATCHTOWER) out?" - slimboyfat

Nice try. I respect your intent to broaden your horizons and understand the American corporate business model better. However, I will use the same business analogy as you and come up with the exact opposite conclusion.

FORD MOTOR COMPANY was in the same 'boat' as CHRYSLER and GENERAL MOTORS during the 'Great Recession.' There was one big difference. FORD never took bailout money from the UNITED STATES TREASURY nor did they file for bankruptcy like GENERAL MOTORS. They had previously borrowed money commercially to 'weather the storm' and combined this with their cash on hand to at least stay solvent. Today, FORD MOTOR COMPANY has gross assets of $108,461,000,000.00 and their stock is trading at $11.9457 a share even as we speak. During the 'great recession' FORD'S stock was trading at $2.29 on 12/31/2008 and at one point the stock dipped drastically to $1.01 a share for a few moments. What's my point? FORD survived without a bailout because they made sound financial decisions. WATCHTOWER is surviving without a bailout (technically) because they are making sound financial decisions.

192

Question for SBF

by Fisherman in

slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

- this thread is your if you want it..

sparky1

"Also the history of Watchtower magazine subscription is very instructive. .......... If you are making a profit you want as many subscribers as you can get." - slimboyfat

Yes, it is instructive indeed. Lets take a look at some FACTS:

January 1, 1985 Watchtower magazine inside cover states:

.20 cents American per issue.

$4.00 per year annual subscription (equal to .17 cents per issue)

So actually, when you bundle in subscription and cover price together, WATCHTOWER was not grossing even .20 cents per issue. And the total gross revenue assumes that cash was received for each and every one of the 11,150,000 issues printed for that particular printing run. But lets not let facts get in our way. Individual subscriptions were the most labor intensive and probably the highest cost per unit shipped in proportion to their total magazine sales. Don't forget, I too was a Bethelite. Until WATCHTOWER adopted more modern forms of processing their literature, this is how a subscription was processed:

1. Subscription form was received in the office and mistakes were corrected on each and every paper subscription form.

2. Corrected form was sent to Graphotype and a metal plate was made for each and every subscriber under the US branch.

3. The metal plates were sent back to the subscription office to look for errors.

4. The corrected version of the plate was sent back to graphotype for reprocessing.

5. The corrected metal plates were then sent back to the subscription office and stored in huge metal cabinets on wheels by state and zip code.

6. When each zip code of subscribers was to have their magazine processed for the week, a cabinet of the metal plates was rolled over to the rappers. These were machines that processed and wrapped every single subscribers magazine. Piles or stacks of magazines were fed by hand into the machine, which wrapped the magazine in lightweight, HIGHER COST kraft paper and stamped an address on each one. There were many of these machines.

7. Each zip code had its own canvas bag that was then stacked up to the ceiling and back to the rear of a full size trailer truck trailer! This went on day after day after day after day..........nonstop.

The individual subscription, besides being given at a discounted price to the customer, also had to have postage affixed to it. WATCHTOWER paid the postal rate of .11 cents American per pound of shipping. ( USPS.com Postage Rates for Periodicals: A Narrative History) Without even figuring in the production costs of the magazine and the handling of the individual magazine, once you figure in the freight charge, an individual subscribed magazine now grosses WATCHTOWER between .155 cents American and .16 cents American.

So as far as GROSS income, individual subscriptions appear to be a losing proposition for WATCHTOWER all along and not the money maker that you seem to make them out to be.

192

Question for SBF

by Fisherman in

slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

- this thread is your if you want it..

sparky1

_Morpheus, it seems that you and I are in the minority when it comes to more rational thoughts on this topic. It is interesting to me that this discussion has spilled over into 3 separate topics. It shows that a lot of people have strong opinions and slimboyfat seems to back up his contentions with facts. I wish to examine one of his contentions with a fact:

"Another poster quoted a bethel insider who said Watchtower was making millions of dollars a week from magazine sales. Very realistic when you consider the cover price, the circulation numbers, and the low cost of production. ......... The 1970/80's was the all time boom in Watchtower sales." - slimboyfat

FACT: Lets take slimboys claim that in the 70/80's, millions of dollars a week were made on magazine sales. I decided to look at the figures for 1980 which would put us right smack in the middle (time wise) for his claim:

January 1, 1980 Watchtower magazine had a production of 8,750,000 units.

The inside cover list a price of .10 or ten cents American.

8,750,000 X .10 = $875,000.00 ( A far cry from his stated MILLIONS!)

And that is gross receipts not including cost of production!

I have said it before and I will say it again. You (slimboyfat) are WRONG and you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

Need I go on?

22

Approximately how many JW have left permanently?

by longgone in

jw
friends

i did try a search before posting this question and found nothing current.

pew research -2016 says approximately two thirds of those born into the religion in the united states alone, no longer consider themselves as members.

(sorry, still don't know how to link, but it's an easy google search.).

sparky1

Pete Zahut got me thinking. I am 62 years old and off the top of my head I came up with 40 witnesses that I have known since growing up a witness that left the religion and never returned! WOW! I bet if I strained my brain, I could come up with more.

192

Question for SBF

by Fisherman in

slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

- this thread is your if you want it..

sparky1

"I don't see the preaching work lasting another 10 years." - Fisherman

Would you or slimboyfat start another topic on this? I have no opinion one way or the other, but I would like to know how people here feel about this. It could make for some interesting observations.

12

Governing Body Members Confessing Before Feds And Trying To Plea Bargin

by Brokeback Watchtower in

i'm sure that insider informants ie: gb ass protectors may offer themselves as witnesses in a plea bargin from prosecution.. i'm thinking that a few gb member might turn in evidence to the state to lighten their sentence for charity fraud..

sparky1

Tax Inquiries and Examinations of Churches

Congress has imposed special limitations, found in IRC Section 7611, on how and when the IRS may conduct civil tax inquiries and examinations of churches. The IRS may only initiate a church tax inquiry if an appropriate high-level Treasury Department official reasonably believes, based on a written statement of the facts and circumstances, that the organization: (a) may not qualify for the exemption or (b) may not be paying tax on an unrelated business or other taxable activity. - Publication 1828 (Rev. 8-2015) Catalogue Number 21096G Department of the Treasury Internal Revenue Service

Yes, it is possible for the IRS to revoke the WATCHTOWER's tax exempt status but it is highly unlikely. Unless WATCHTOWER is doing something blatantly illegal, the IRS will leave them alone.

192

Question for SBF

by Fisherman in

slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

- this thread is your if you want it..

sparky1

Yours is a very perceptive and reasonable post, ScenicViewer and in my opinion is probably what is going on behind closed doors.