Posts by rassillon

15

Trinity - HELP!!!

by Hamboozled in

since being in the jw org for close to 35 years (from infant) and recently leaving i have been studying topics like the trinity because i was never allowed to before.

i'm getting so many mixed reviews from the scriptures of whether the trinity is possible or impossible.

" and john 1:18 "no one has ever seen god, but god the one and only, who is at the father's side, has made him known.

rassillon

Flash : Coolhand, Etal...

to be fair I will state that I personally don't believe in a trinity.

My perspective on the particular conundrum of why the HS gets apparently greater importance is that if the HS is GOD's commands in action, someone sinning against the HS would be activly "knowingly" working against GOD's WILL. But sinning against GOD could be something that in done unknowingly, thus GOD being willing to forgive that.

But I stand in the overall understanding of the trinity is that for us at this point it just isn't important and just distracts from the real message of the bible.

regards,

-r

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

To everyone,

I have tried to edit my post several times to reduce the font but I just get an error. Hopefully that will be resolved by the admins.

I apologize, I was in a bad mood (long story bad day) and the fact that thirdwitness LIED about ME and said I was doing something I was not got to me.

Sorry.

Now thirdwitness:

You lied about me and several others. I have overcome your logic several times and so have others. But what you do can be likened to a little kid who puts his hands over his ears and runs around in a circle and yells LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU....when someone makes a point.

You ARE dishonest. You will not answer questions when you know they will hurt your position. Thus you have no position.

You REFUSE to discuss this matter in a reasonable manner.

I would be happy to discuss this with you and we can examine things point by point if you are willing to answer questions put to you. If you have the truth you have nothing to worry about.

But I know, YOU know and most everyone else knows that you will never agree to this because you have proven that you will not discuss things in a reasonable manner. You will only discuss things in a way that allows you to spin them in your favor.

I challenge you to discuss some ground rules and then once they are set abide by them.

But I know that you wont because without lying, red herrings, and other such deceptive ways you have NO argument.

This saddens me too because I am still a Ministeral Servant and in good standing with a congregation. It is not an easy thing to accept that you have been taught a lie all your life and trust me I am one who is very very hard to have his mind changed. After a good two years of research trying to find things to support my beliefs I had to accept the facts, 607 is a farce. But I invite you, I entreat you, prove me wrong with reason, not deception, twisting, and ignoring of facts.

-r

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

thirdwitness, you are one of the biggest idiots that I have ever had the displeasure to come across.
I know I am calling names, I do this because you have lied - construed - misrepresented - acted dishonestly - etc - etc - etc
You do not know how to discuss something is a reasonable manner. Everyone was civil with you until you repeatedly ignored valid points that they made and important questions which required you to answer. You continued to reply with poor summerization of others arguments and that make a poor reply to that.

In another prophecy about Tyre Ezekiel said Tyre would never be rebuilt but it was, therefore since the Tyre prophecy is figurative then the Egypt prophecy must be figurative.

Rassillion said: The prophecy about Tyre did not get fufilled during this time period. In fact the Insight book indicates it did not until several hundred years later.

WHY then do you claim that this 40 years for Egypt must be fufilled during this time period.
AlanF concurs: The reason is that every possible way cannot contravene the simple fact that a literal fulfillment of a crucial part of the prophecy about Tyre failed, and that once that is established, all bets about the "40 year prophecy" for Egypt are off. And AlanF says: Now, if there exists in a Bible book an unambiguous prophecy whose fulfillment ("the city will never be rebuilt") can be directly observed today to be false (the city exists as a vibrant community), then other prophecies in that book that are contradicted by solid historical data are extremely likely to be false, or they were never intended to be fulfilled literally. Ezekiel's "40 year prophecy" is a case in point.... You're well aware that you cannot wiggle away from the simple fact that Ezekiel's prophecy about the ultimate fate of Tyre was false, and therefore that everything else he prophesied is called into question.

Jeffro: He is pointing to the fact that there is no reason to take the 40 years as a literal period applied specifically to Egypt, just as there is no reason to take Tyre's 70 years as a literal period applied specifically to Tyre.

In the above poor attempt to prove yourself correct you LIE and IMPLY about what me and others were ASKING YOU. You said we are saying something MUST be happening. When we are ACTUALLY ASKING you to explain WHY you say something else MUST be despite the evidence that similar prophecy in the SAME book was figurative.
YOU ARE A LIAR SEE ABOVE
YOE DON'T DARE HAVE AN HONEST DISCUSSION

YOU ARE A LIAR SEE ABOVE

YOU ARE A LIAR SEE ABOVE

YOU ARE A LIAR SEE ABOVE

YOU ARE A LIAR SEE ABOVE

YOU ARE A LIAR SEE ABOVE

YOU ARE A LIAR SEE ABOVE

YOU ARE A LIAR SEE ABOVE

YOU ARE A LIAR SEE ABOVE

YOU ARE A LIAR SEE ABOVE

YOU ARE A LIAR SEE ABOVE

Edited by request.

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

Norm, That is some great information. Thanks for posting. I have only relativly recently really understood the deception by the WTB&TS. I am not nearly as versed in it as some but it seems everything I research just reaffirms that the WTB&TS has lied to me. Big Thanks to AlanF, Leolaia, Auld Soul, Norm, and all the rest of you who should understand that you are really doing a great service in presenting this information. Not forcing anyone to believe you but letting FACTS stand on their own merit. I would give all you guys a big hug if I could. I would also like to thank scholar and thirdwitness because of your refusal to debate, discuss, whatever you want to call it, in a fair and reasonable manner like the above mentioned people, you have proved that you are not interested in truth but in pushing your own agenda. My favorite bible character was Phineas, because he stood for truth and tolorated no rivalry to Jah. You abviously don't feel that way because you would have the faith and character to stand against anyone who apposed truth, thus ultimatly Jehovah. There is no falsehood with Jehovah. Scholar and Thridwitness you two betray your true intentions and that is to support, NOT JEHOVAH, but the Watchtower, NO MATTER WHAT. You have the same mentality as a suicide bomber. Peace be with all of you, and please Alan, Leo, etal... Please Please don't fade away from this subculture, you are needed! I am sure some of us chil-rens will grow up and fight side by side with you but it is allways fun to watch yet another Jahesbola Witness get ripped another A**Hole by you guys. -r ding ding ding - The Winners in this corner, AlanF, Leolaia, Jeffro..... Hey Hey, can someone pick thirdwitness and scholar up off the mat? They are bleeding everywhere.

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

third-nit-wit Are you telling all your friends over at "ewatchman-exposed" how you are getting your ass royally kicked over her by Alan? Or how about how Leolaia (a girl - love ya) has totally ripped you a new one. If anyone is starting here, please go back and read from the beginning. I swear 3rdWitness must be on the olympic gymnastics team the way he twists flips and flops to avoid answering real questions and total debunking of his pathetic argument. I know I am not really being fair but he just won't have a civilized discussion and answer questions posed to him. -r

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

thirdwitness:

Ok, choose any interpretation you like as to what the Bible meant when it said Tyre would never be rebuilt. Now tell me how does this prove 587 or disprove 607? Please spare us the insult of saying, 'Well if your interpretation is wrong about Tyre then its wrong about Egypt.' One has nothing to do with the other. Besides, I'm letting you choose whatever interpretation you like concerning Tyre.

OK you get backed into a corner and have to make concessions, so you try to put stupid conditions on answers. Of course one has something to do with the other. They are from the same book of the bible. The point of the whole matter is that you insist on a particular interpretation of the Egypt 40 year prophecy and Tyre prophecy because you want to use it to support YOUR chronology. The problem is that taken for what it is, the Egypt 40 year prophecy, is proof of nothing but the fact that prophecy was made. How it was fufilled and when it was fufilled has not been proved in any sense. You can make all the CLAIMS that you want but they are just that claims. Your claims are baseless and betray your intellectualy dishonest presupposition that 607 is correct. It is possible that at one point you and I were alike. I tried to prove 607 to the best of my ability. I was even dishonest at times trying to do it, something I am a bit embarrassed to admit. But my love for truth just would not allow me to continue to ignore the preponderance of evidence. I had to accept the fact that I was not defending "bible chronology" but was defending a "man's chronology" as you are also doing. If you throw away all your preconcieved ideas and just look at the archealogical evidence and the bible you will see that they agree. What you won't find is 607. -r

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

third-nit-witness

To prove that the Bible cannot be totally relied upon.

No, to prove that your and other men's "interpretation" of the bible can't be relied upon AT ALL. -r

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

thirdwitness and scholar, I will say again, as I have said before, It is the disingenuious half-truthed nature of your arguments which helped me to see the inconsistencys in the 607 argument. If you discussed this in an honest manner you would have more people respect your opinion. You don't and 99% of all JW apologist don't. Honest discussion of the facts is all that some are after. For many if it comes down to the bible and secular opinion they will take the bible hands down. But when it comes to a man's interpretation against archeaology and this archeaology does not challenge the bible you have to choose against the "man's" interpretation. You have been duped by the Watchtower, and because you are embarrased that you were duped by Robert King and found him to be a raving lunatic you ran back to where you feel safe and choose to defend it no matter what. Learn to think on your own. Truth is Truth. I am Jehovah I have not changed. The watchtower is in a continious state of change. -r Oh, and by the way, you never answered any of my posts, which is crazy cause if I were me I would preferr to argue this with me that Leo or Alan who made you look like a fool.

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

Hey, I keep looking for the United States on a Mexican map.????? All I can find is Estados Unidos?????? I guess the United States doesn't exist ????? Damn, then neither do I......

601

For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

by Swamboozled in

just got this link sent to me by my sister in law and i just keeping staring at it trying to decide where to start.

i know that arguing with a jw is like throwing miracle wheat in the wind...but i want a comeback!!!

http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htm

rassillon

thirdwitness' definition of being rebuilt: For thirdwitness to agree that a city was rebuilt it would require having detaild blueprints, drawings, photos, and eyewitness evidence of the first construction. Then during the rebuild, every stone that was used originally would have to be re-used in the same exact place in the same exact building by the original builder of that building. If any stones were destroyed the dust of "only" that stone would have to be gathered and heated under pressure until it formed a stone again and then placed in the exact place in the exact building by the original builder. The entire city would have to be weighed and must be within +/- 100 grams of the original city's weight. If these guidelines are not met it can be officially stated by Department of Reconstructive Antiquities that the city hasum notum binum rebuiltum -r OH, BTW, 3RDNITWITNESS, YOU HAVE NEVER ONCE ANSWERED ME. I tried several times to get you to answer. You must not feel that confident about your argument.