dear spanky clean:.
i'm not certain where to turn for advice.
your advice column i caught in our local squeegee gazette, and i thought, perhaps, you could help where even my best friends fear to tread.. under my bed is an ever growing colony of dust bunnies.
Dear Dusty,
For the love of God get those dust bunnies now before they form themselves into loathsome creatures with drooling jaws that will lie in wait under all eight beds for the lily-white ankles of those house guests to present themselves.
Sincerely,
Ripley
watchtower baptism thousands of children.
today i uploaded a new article to my blog comparing what watchtower said about jesus and baptizing children with what watchtower had been doing for years.
my article is titled watchtower baptism thousands of children and is available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/08/watchtower-baptism-thousands-of.html.
The problem with "expressing their love for God by baptism" is that young children have no concept that their baptism means that everything they do will be scrutinized...for a really young person this could be devastating. One of the questions for baptism a person must answer is aknowledging that the organization is "spirit-directed." How can a really young person completely understand this? They have no means of comprehending what it means to research and make truly informed decisions.
EVERYONE makes mistakes, especially unwary and inexperienced young people. The elders sometimes take these young ones and humiliate, berate, and crush them-all "spirit directed" of course.
Also-no, Jesus did not baptise anyone personally.
man im so drained right now and tired i cant say a whole lot.. but you know, i was thinking about going back to them and just to see a bit more about it all.. i dont know to be very honest with you if its thr right thing to do or not on a personal level.. .
i guess i need to mull things over.. .
any suggestions from previous jw's would be awesome for me.
Only you can decide. Please base that decision on research rather than feelings.
Please look into the history of JWs, and some of their own doctrinal changes through the years. This way you can make an informed choice. Please ask questions now, as once baptized, it could be viewed as "apostate."
A famous quote: (I don't remember by whom)
"Better to have questions that can't be answered, than answers that can't be questioned."
it has been some time since my last post on here and its been hard for me to post much since i'm still in and my fellow dubbies are always poking there heads in my business trying to find something wrong to get me into trouble, but i do enjoy lurking on here from time to time... and i do plan to post here much more in the near future!.
actually, being on this site and reading all of your threads (mostly on my phone) has become my favourite thing to do at meetings and on field service and pretty much anything wtbts related!.
you all have been such a great help and comfort to me when i feel down, seriously even the trolls that come around here every now and then leave me with a sense of tranquility, for it reminds me of how i used to be just like them at one point, it gets me all "happified" to know that i have now awakened and see the "truth" about the truth and feel quite at peace with myself at times.. as some of you that have read my first post may know... i've been working on a really, really long fade, and so far its been going steady to say the least.
Hello one day.
Looks like you are proceeding with your plan as outlined in your first post. Just keep thinking ahead...keep your eyes on the prize-ha!
I hope you are still determined to get an education. Knowledge is freeing...and yes, power.
Patience is called for. One day at a time.
when i was reading one of steven hassan's books, i learned that moonies analyze people's personalities and define them as doers, thinkers, and two other categories that escape me now.
mr. hassan says that people do not join cults; rather, they are recruited into them.
the moonies, for example, do analyze who you are and how best they can get you in.
Sure they do.
They have a book with all sorts of conversation starters and advice to look around to see what type of person you will be speaking to so that you will be prepared.
Do they have toys in the yard? Start with families and children's issues.
Take issues of magazines to them with topics that are designed to speak to their interests. Select a book to start studying with them that you feel will address their "needs."
Reel them in slowly, imperceptibly......
hi, this is my first post on this forum although i have been reading many posts on here.
i feel safe enough to ask your advice and become involved now......from what i have learned about this forum it is occupied by sensible people who have left the watchtower influences for one reason or another.
i am, for want of a better word, a none believer.
Welcome.
You've been given good advice not to try to force issues with your wife. I remember how that used to send me into a defensive frenzy! Things are going to get difficult around Christmas time for your family. I hope for your children that you will take over the managing of decorations, etc.
You must at this time educate yourself about JWs and their history. Please read a lot on this site and on the WT quotes site.You can learn what the WT itself has taught at various times about so many things. Did you know that at one time the WT said that vaccinations were like taking pus into the body? Was that "food at the proper time from God?"
When you speak with your wife, it must always come across as a question that you are interested in knowing the answer to, not as a challenge. As a husband, you are curious as to this religion that has so captivated your wife, and so you look into it.
Here is an interesting article. I don't know how to make it link...sorry. It is about a girl who is a JW and was given cow's blood.
Your wife is studying; she has learned that blood is sacred and must be poured out on the ground. JWs have scrupulously followed the command not to take blood. However, recently, they have been given "new light." It seems that now, a JW can take fractions, or parts of blood. Which parts are deemed acceptable? Well, the Governing Body (men in New York who are in charge) have decided which ones, of course.
Now, this article comes out with a JW taking cow's blood. How is it acceptable if blood is to be poured out upon the ground?
These might be questions you could CAREFULLY ask your wife as she is involved in health care. Obviously, it makes no sense, but have her look into it and explain it to you. Do not speak as she explains it. Just let her continue to speak. Perhaps as she tries to explain it, she will be struck by the cognitive dissonance in her own words.Here is where a difficult part comes in. Don't say anything other than maybe, "Really?" with a quissical look. Then drop the subject until you have another question.
Let us know how things progress-don't let the Witnesses have your family!
ok this just hit me the other day.. i was a sister in my early 40 an adult.
a very bad child molester moved into the hall, and was starting to be used.
i knew of his background and could not stand him or stand to see him gaining the apporval of the elders and congregation.
I am so sorry, LITS.
I also agree with Pistoff....take a deep breath. You must do what is best FOR YOU.
Give things time to calm down. Your husband is under "the spell" of the WT. The fact that he spoke with the other elders first shows that he is concerned about their stance. It may be that as time goes on and this person gets closer to people with kids in the congo he will stand up and speak out. He is going through some cognitive dissonance right now.
Try to get involved with things that will get your mind off the JWs. Find yourself. That is no mean feat...I was "in" for over thirty years. When I left, I had no idea who I was. For so long I'd just been parroting the WT line. It takes awhile to find some interests that will take the place of all those hours spent at the KHall or out in service. But I'm sure that you can find some things that a lot more enjoyable, and hopefully your husband can join you in a few. How about traveling at least one weekend instead of going to the Hall? How about a continuing education class together...like dancing? Give it a shot and see if things will improve.
Showdowns usually don't produce good resuts. I am taking a class in Psychology right now on Principles of Learning. To shape a behavior you start slowly and give reinforcements. Works with rats, pidgeons, and people.
i started studying jw with a work friend because she used to keep me at arms length and i knew it was because of her religion.
she and her family are such lovely people so i thought maybe there was something to it, how bad can it be, etc.
i was enticed by this girls friendship as she has been spending more time with me but continues to say "you're not one of us yet" which continually freaks me out.
Welcome.
You are very perceptive. JWs are many times one way at the Kingdom Hall, and another outside of it. The clothing styles inside sometimes really don't match what they are willing to wear at their "gatherings." Yes, it is wrong for an unmarried couple to sit together. Looks bad.
Some of the ones leaving the Hall may be going outside to walk the parking lot to make sure it's safe. Other than that, some are "very important" and have "very important things to do" even though the speaker is supposed to be imparting "life saving information from Jehovah." Some of the elders even get into little groups and talk at the back, or go to another room. You, of course, or all of the plain congregation members, should never do this, or you'd be accused of not appreciating spiritual food. You'll never figure this one out...I know I couldn't and I was "in" for over thirty years.
You are also right about not having much to say except drill you about your intentions.
First of all, they are not encouraged to get an education, so many don't know a whole lot about the world around them.
Second, you are not supposed to discuss much else except "spiritual things" at the KHall. For instance, not sports, and some could be "stumbled" because the may be thought of as violent, or taking time away from Jehovah.
Jws are not really supposed to participate in school sports, nor extracurricular activities.
Not politics, as JWs don't vote, and the only thing they are interested in politically is God destroying all the governments at Armageddon.
Can't talk about the latest fossil discovery of a dinosaur....the JWs taught for years that the earth has only had life on it for a bit over 49,000 years...they are unsure how the dinosaurs fit in. Some even believe Satan put the bones there to confuse people. At best they will say that T-Rex didn't eat meat because he died out before the flood of Noah's day when meat was O.K'd to eat. If you do want to start a discussion on this...it should be interesting.
They don't know too much about medicine, although they will start talking as if they do....they don't take blood (except recently they've been allowed to take fractions of it-the WT decides which fractions, or parts) but then they may not be averse to using a new treatment with cow's blood-yes, it's weird....don't know where that conversation would go)
Doesn't leave a whole lot to converse about.......
The JW you are "friends" with really can't get too close to you yet...right now you are considered "wordly" and if Armageddon comes tomorrow you and all your family who are not JWs will die by fire, earthquake, or some boulders from the sky, the birds will peck out your eyes, and your bodies will lie on the surface of the earth as manure.
Please ask the JW if this is why you are still at "arm's length."
Next, please really take the time to research the history of this religion. I wish I had. I wish I had my thirty+ years back. I noticed some of the same things you did when I was new. There were no personal computers at the time, and no one to tell me these things.
Please get back with us after you've done more research.
ok this just hit me the other day.. i was a sister in my early 40 an adult.
a very bad child molester moved into the hall, and was starting to be used.
i knew of his background and could not stand him or stand to see him gaining the apporval of the elders and congregation.
He hugely blew up at me. We were standing by the drinking fountain in the back of the hall there were people around us but still he pointed his finger in my face demanding to know how I knew this person was a child molester. He asked me who had told me? He was not yelling but his voice was a hiss of peer anger and he was red in the face.
Yep. You dared to try to usurp the "good ol' boy" network. You wanted to make waves. You wanted to insinuate you knew something they didn't. You didn't "go through your husband with a concern."
How are you and your husband about this now? Is the pedo still in the congregation? Aren't you glad you're out and don't have to have more fingers in your face?
i used to be a bit more active in the community over on the yuku board (i recognize some of you from over there) but have lost touch.
i've been lurking this board for about 3 years now and finally decided to jump in and post, and share my similar but still unique story of how i went from being a born-in true believer to a full blown apostate.
first off, let me introduce myself.
Welcome.
Very interesting so far. Can't wait for part two.
