What do you mean "who will be the NEXT king of the north"? The NEXT? Just how many kings of the north did the bible speak of? Who was the last king of the north? Don't you mean "who will the society NEXT name as the king of the north because they last one they thought was the king of the north was not"?
detective
JoinedPosts by detective
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Who will be the next 'king of the north'?
by YoYoMama ininteresting news article: http://web.star-telegram.com/content/fortworth/2002/01/10/dfw/news-011002-02.htm
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detective
January babies rock!
Happy birthday!
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How busy are we?
by Simon ini do miss many of the people who've come and gone and hope they'll pop in and let us know how things are going but understand that people won't post on here forever.. in case anyone is concerned because it appears that people are leaving i thought i'd put you minds at rest:.
last week was the busiest ever traffic-wise.
i expect this week to top that (perhaps it's since wol closed?
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detective
Your numbers keep going up? Just a sign that your "works" are truly blessed.
Thanks so much for all your efforts on this forum. It's definitely appreciated.
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My interview with Jehovah's Witnesses
by Danni ini know i said i wouldn't post here again because of the way i made everyone upset over alanf,but i thought you all might want to know what took place and i do need some advice.. .
yesterday i took a little time out to talk with jehovah's witnesses.
at first they were more than happy to answer my questions.
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detective
Hi Danni,
I'm the one who mentioned the abuse of power issue, just to clarify. Mind you, I'm not saying you are abusing power but to be cautious so that it doesn't appear that way.
I guess I want to know what your objective is. I know you are interested in a JW fellow and this may have contributed to your curiousity about his religion. Whatever transpired in your conversation between you and this other fellow, it's pretty safe to say he walked away spooked. Somehow, during your conversation this fellow ended up feeling some sort of pressure to respond to you. Only you would know how that might have come about but judging from the legalistic tones and the call to your supervisor, this guy is definitely intimidated. Since you are not acting in an official capacity, I really think you should consider de-escalating the situation.
If your objective is to get a bunch of strangers spooked, which I don't think it is, then it looks like you've succeeded. If your objective is to learn more about the religion, then it'd be appropriate to turn it down a notch so that you can regain their trust and real conversation can ensue. If your objective is to get them thinking then it would also be wise to bring the tension down a bit, otherwise they are completely defensive and you won't have much luck. I think you became interested in the religion because of a person and if you don't want to alienate that person, you have to go to great lengths to make sure that your cop persona is not the one he is talking to.
It's natural to be frustrated when talking to people who are evasive. I myself had to bite my lip a number of times when my JW friend intimated that I had the insight of a four year old because I wasn't just accpeting the ol' rigoromol(sp.) Yes, I could have had him for lunch, but it would have done nothing more than destroy the rapport between us. So, I would encourage you to look at your objectives. Decide what you want out of your discussions. If you want a solid friendship with that guy you've had your eye on, then you have to step back and work on rebuilding the trust that went out the window after your conversation with his friends. If you want to strut your stuff (I can't say I blame you!), then be prepared for the fact that you could damage all rapport and if that's okay with you- then I whole heartedly think you should go for it and do it with style! Just be sure of what it is you want to gain out of this situation and keep reminding yourself of their "victim" status. They don't always lie because they are evil, they sometimes lie because it is the only way to cling to their world view. Good luck with this. Keep us posted. -
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My interview with Jehovah's Witnesses
by Danni ini know i said i wouldn't post here again because of the way i made everyone upset over alanf,but i thought you all might want to know what took place and i do need some advice.. .
yesterday i took a little time out to talk with jehovah's witnesses.
at first they were more than happy to answer my questions.
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detective
It sounds to me as though they do not understand that you are asking questions due to personal interest. I think they have confused your personal interest with an official inquiry or investigation. You really should put an end to the misconception that they are somehow obligated legally to respond to you when you are not on official police business. I don't know if it is the fact that you are an authority figure that has them running to get legal input for a basic conversation or if they are just easily spooked but you need to make sure that they realize this is a personal interest. In other words, be careful to not accidently abuse your power by throwing it around when you are not on official business. Maybe you've got that hard-nosed cop thing down better than you think or they've read too many detective(!) novels or seen one too many Die Hard movies, but it sounds as if they aren't fully convinced that you're just an average joe asking the questions. As silly as this may seem, you need to repeat it until you're blue in the face because they don't seem to be getting it!
I highly doubt that the legal department would be contacting me if I started asking a witness some questions about this issue. However, if I mention I work for the press or for the police or a lawyers office, I've immediately hit upon something that strikes fear in their hearts. It would be dishonest to use that fear factor to intimidate them (despite the fact they continuously exploit the fears of their adherents/converts). It seems most witnesses would just walk away from a conversation that they clearly couldn't win (maybe not online, but in person anyway!) Try to remember that the average witness isn't really encouraged to question authority.
These people felt OBLIGATED to respond to you, hence their calling legal and your supervisor etc. By not making sure they understand this was personal interest, you inadvertantly contributed to their belief that you were asking in an authoritative manner, not a conversational manner. If you aren't cautious, this could look like an abuse of power. I'm not saying that's your intention, I'm just saying that this is how it could be interpreted.
Additionally, you ran the risk of looking unprofessional in front of your boss and colleagues. It would probably be best if you diffused the situation by explaining you are simply an interested party and that they needn't go to so much trouble or something casually and non-interrogational sounding. Do something to de-escalate the situation, at least that's my thought on the matter. -
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Passes for Ground Zero
by Patriot instarting tomorrow the only way to have access to the viewing platforms that were built in order to let visitors have a "closer" look at the ruins at gz is by obtaining a "pass" being handed out every day early in the morning.. this to accomadate the large crowds and demands to view the ruins.. if you dont get a pass to be able to go up the 13ft.platform which can accomadate about 400 people at a time, then you have to view the ruins from the perimeter established.. i wanted to post this info.
in order to keep showing everyone that the wt boasts of having jws walking "around the debris" talking to others about the "truth" is a lie.. as you can see the closest that you can get is only through one of the viewing platforms-and now only with a pass.. and no freddy, i'm not talking about standing next to the bank and streching out your neck as far up as you can.. mav.-
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detective
Patriot,
I had a feeling that's where you were going with this. I think sometimes people are so eager to believe a story, even an enthusiastically exagerrated one, that they don't realize they are inadvertantly promoting a myth. Like you, I do believe preaching was being done AROUND THE PERIMETER. Did a guy hauling a bucket also offer a scripture or two verbally as he went about his work? Maybe. I don't know. If so, was the guy offering a scripture necessarily a witness? Maybe. He/she could have been of any faith variety. To presume that the only people offering words of encouragement from the scriptures were ONLY witnesses is incredibly naive. The perimeter was lined with people offering all sorts of encouragement. Simply watching the news, one could see that much. I can see why you have to rein in some of these dramatic re-enactments. I admire the work done by people like yourself. I appreciate your efforts and thank you deeply. I think I'd be a bit frustrated with people whose enthusiasm has gotten the better of them and as a result, they greatly over-exaggerate their role, especially if I had been in the trenches as you had.
Witnesses and other religious groups were likely at the perimeter of the site. Some witnesses may have even been working the site in an official capacity. However, the thought of a bunch of people randomly wandering around behind police lines to offer literature is not only a horrifying thought, it would only sully the reputation of the group as it would show absolutely no regard for the integrity of a crime scene in which thousands were killed. Let alone the inherent danger of traipsing through a smoldering, infectious, dangerous environment and getting underfoot of those laboring in horrible conditions- which is just unthinkable. That would only lower the public opinion of a group and it's cause. Not only is it implausible, it's downright insulting. If I were among a group of people who made claims that could even suggest such a thing, I'd turn to my fellow group mates and encourage them to be specific as they would be injuring the groups reputation, not enhancing it.
So...witnesses on the perimeter, witnesses involved in an official capacity. That's as special as any other group on the perimeter or any other religion represented by a site worker. I'd even say a little less impressive, in my opinion, as I think furthering ones own cause by trying to gain converts after a massive tragedy by using it to ones own agenda is simply incredibly manipulative and inappropriate. However, since I don't want to totally discredit the motives of some people who, for some strange reason, honestly believed that they were offering comfort (if you pretend there isn't that whole armageddon thing).
Nytele, just understand that Patriot- who was in the trenches- would prefer it if you would not allow visits to the perimeter to take on mythic proportions. Also, it would be in the best interest of your group and it's reputation to be clear that you did not violate a crime scene. -
26
Passes for Ground Zero
by Patriot instarting tomorrow the only way to have access to the viewing platforms that were built in order to let visitors have a "closer" look at the ruins at gz is by obtaining a "pass" being handed out every day early in the morning.. this to accomadate the large crowds and demands to view the ruins.. if you dont get a pass to be able to go up the 13ft.platform which can accomadate about 400 people at a time, then you have to view the ruins from the perimeter established.. i wanted to post this info.
in order to keep showing everyone that the wt boasts of having jws walking "around the debris" talking to others about the "truth" is a lie.. as you can see the closest that you can get is only through one of the viewing platforms-and now only with a pass.. and no freddy, i'm not talking about standing next to the bank and streching out your neck as far up as you can.. mav.-
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detective
I think I understand what you are saying. I suspect that the people "at ground zero" were actually preaching at the perimeter where it was acceptable for them to be without jeopardizing a crime scene. In other words, they weren't wading around behind crime scene lines, they were at the perimeter speaking to those guarding the scene. This sounds about right. Would you say this is correct?
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Passes for Ground Zero
by Patriot instarting tomorrow the only way to have access to the viewing platforms that were built in order to let visitors have a "closer" look at the ruins at gz is by obtaining a "pass" being handed out every day early in the morning.. this to accomadate the large crowds and demands to view the ruins.. if you dont get a pass to be able to go up the 13ft.platform which can accomadate about 400 people at a time, then you have to view the ruins from the perimeter established.. i wanted to post this info.
in order to keep showing everyone that the wt boasts of having jws walking "around the debris" talking to others about the "truth" is a lie.. as you can see the closest that you can get is only through one of the viewing platforms-and now only with a pass.. and no freddy, i'm not talking about standing next to the bank and streching out your neck as far up as you can.. mav.-
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detective
Okay, Nytele, then I second this question: in what capacity was your friend there? when was your friend there? These are important questions as they help us understand the veracity of the claims that on site preaching work was being done and when. For example, I don't doubt that there were/are witness emergency personnel who responeded. I don't doubt that there were witness employees of the trade center. I don't doubt that during the immediate aftermath, as debris was raining down, that more than a few witnesses ran for their lives as did everyone else.
However, I think everyone can agree that the site is a crime scene. Now I'm having a hard time understanding the capacity that your friend was on the site in. Can you explain? I don't think it would do much for their reputation to think they'd violate that crime scene and risk potential evidence corruption to share a few scriptures any more than they'd violate any other murder scene. However, if you tell me your friend was was an emergency worker authorized to be on site and happened to preach, then I'd buy that. Of course, there would also be a number of other religions also represented in that case. I do know that grief counselors were located nearby but not on site directly.
Can you explain a bit please? -
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Passes for Ground Zero
by Patriot instarting tomorrow the only way to have access to the viewing platforms that were built in order to let visitors have a "closer" look at the ruins at gz is by obtaining a "pass" being handed out every day early in the morning.. this to accomadate the large crowds and demands to view the ruins.. if you dont get a pass to be able to go up the 13ft.platform which can accomadate about 400 people at a time, then you have to view the ruins from the perimeter established.. i wanted to post this info.
in order to keep showing everyone that the wt boasts of having jws walking "around the debris" talking to others about the "truth" is a lie.. as you can see the closest that you can get is only through one of the viewing platforms-and now only with a pass.. and no freddy, i'm not talking about standing next to the bank and streching out your neck as far up as you can.. mav.-
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detective
Well, aside from the fact that you can't prove what you are saying Nytele, there is every reason to believe that they were NOT there. Have you any photographic evidence- or any evidence for that matter, to support your claims?
On a side note, if some reason they actually were there, they either had their sleeves rolled up and were doing the recovery work or they were a nuisance or hindrance to that process.
So, either support your claims Nytele or accept that you can't and move on.
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Evidence that the WTS Claims to be Inspired
by Lionel_P_Hartley inmuch evidence has been provided to demonstrate that the wts is a false prophet even though jws will say anything to deny this unpleasant fact.
generally they act and teach explicitly that the gb speaks for god - that it is is god's sole channel of communication - but also claim that the gb is not inspired.
that is a distinction without a difference.. this has caused you know to be on the lookout for jw teachings "channeled" to him by the slave but which are without a bible basis.
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detective
Yo,
which scriptures were these apostles studying? Would that be the old testament? Certainly it isn't the bible in the form we see it today- so what scriptures were they studying?