Posts by PrimateDave

150

Article: The Atheist's Dilemma

by BurnTheShips in

campos: the atheist's dilemmaby paul camposwhy is stanley fish so much smarter than richard dawkins?

that question occurred to me last week, while attending a lecture at which fish, the well-known literary and legal theorist, did the thing he always does, which is to make the following point over and over again:.

"no believer will find his faith shaken by evidence that is evidence only in the light of assumptions he does not share and considers flatly wrong.".

PrimateDave

Suppose the Russians land on the Moon and discover....

If comlexity and design in a particular system is found to have an intelligent "cause", does this somehow automatically prove that an omnipotent, invisible, omniscient entity made the earth and life on it in seven days, caused a global flood, sent his son to earth to die for the sins of mankind, and will take the chosen to heaven while destroying the earth? hmmm? Isn't that ultimately what Believers try to prove? Since I have intimately studied the Bible and found its whole story to be a caricature, I find the efforts of Fundies quite laughable.

Dave

150

Article: The Atheist's Dilemma

by BurnTheShips in

campos: the atheist's dilemmaby paul camposwhy is stanley fish so much smarter than richard dawkins?

that question occurred to me last week, while attending a lecture at which fish, the well-known literary and legal theorist, did the thing he always does, which is to make the following point over and over again:.

"no believer will find his faith shaken by evidence that is evidence only in the light of assumptions he does not share and considers flatly wrong.".

PrimateDave

After further consideration of this article I have come to the conclusion that the Atheist's real dilemma here is that Paul Campos is preaching to the choir. The assumptions that he and Stanley Fish hold firmly are based on and the basis of circular arguments which have no need of evidence.

"No believer will find his faith shaken by evidence that is evidence only in the light of assumptions he does not share and considers flatly wrong."

Now lets turn that around, shall we?

Suppose an angel of the Lord were to appear before Dawkins, even as he was delivering another lecture on the delusion that God exists. Would such an experience change Dawkins' views?

Are unbiased readers to assume along with Campos that "angels of the Lord" are a given? This is such a ludicrous scenario to begin with, and not only are the assumptions "not shared" among atheists and considered "flatly wrong," where is the objective evidence to go along with such assumptions?

I have no problem with looking for meaning and purpose in life, and I marvel at the wonder and complexity of the observable Universe, but I see Fundamentalist Theology as a minor cultural subset of humanity and definable within a certain sociological, anthropological, and historical context. Time to look outside the box, Stanley and Paul. You're not that important. Your reality, beliefs, and experience are all pretty subjective. Even your thoughts exist within the bio-chemical processes of your brains.

Woman relates her experience with a massive stroke

If you should "see" an "angel of the Lord" or "hear" the voice of "God," you might do well to go to the doctor for an MRI.

Dave

25

JW top a "Belief in demon activity" poll

by inkling in

a recent article in the new york times on bobby jindal's amateur .

exorcist experience.... http://blow.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/bobby-jindal-the-exorcist-pro-or-con/ .

quotes a survey that asked people of various religious groups.

PrimateDave

Ghost caught on tape

Seriously, don't watch this video if you have heart problems!

Be sure to turn the sound down if you are in an area that needs to be quiet.

Demunz! lol!

Dave

12

Neither atheists nor theists but still moral

by hamilcarr in

jw
friends

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/us/28beliefs.html?ref=us&pagewanted=all.

scandanavian nonbelievers, which is not to say atheists

by peter steinfels .

PrimateDave

It is an interesting article. I think it is a reflection of the cultural homogeneity in those, and similar countries. I think the same could be said of Japan, for example. Much of the religious angst that characterizes the United States (an oxymoron?) is because it was conquered and settled by culturally and ethnically distinct groups. Fundamentalism and Atheism (with a capital A) are polar opposites that feed off each other's reactionary message. I do suspect that the silent majority are somewhere in the middle, much like our Danish and Swedish cousins. The political system in turn feeds off the divisive rhetoric, promoting morality as an election issue while subtly manufacturing consent for an a-moral, if not wholly immoral, socio-economic system, supported by the myth of a "classless" society. Such is life in the Empire.

Dave

150

Article: The Atheist's Dilemma

by BurnTheShips in

campos: the atheist's dilemmaby paul camposwhy is stanley fish so much smarter than richard dawkins?

that question occurred to me last week, while attending a lecture at which fish, the well-known literary and legal theorist, did the thing he always does, which is to make the following point over and over again:.

"no believer will find his faith shaken by evidence that is evidence only in the light of assumptions he does not share and considers flatly wrong.".

PrimateDave

After all, a genuine atheist must interpret such an event as a temporarily inexplicable hallucination, or a sudden psychotic break, or a clever technological trick - in short, as anything but evidence that atheism is false.

Let me see. I have a relative who is convinced that Holy Spirit has chosen him as one of the Anointed. Furthermore, this relative claims he has heard and seen the effects of demon activity. In most any other way I completely trust this relative. His conclusions are supernatural and based on the broad Western cultural belief in Christianity, the Bible, and more specifically in the teachings of the Watchtower Society. Does that make Jehovah's Witnesses the true religion after all? How can I help but to conclude that he has simply experienced hallucinations due to unknown causes, possibly sleep disorders and waking dreams. Some experts in meditation can develop abilities in lucid dreaming, waking dreams, "astral projection," and other feats of mental control. Many religious people around the world from diverse cultural backgrounds have used such meditation techniques to experience "the divine." Should one believe their experiences, then "the divine" is certainly a-religious. Then there are those who approach these same techniques and results from a secular standpoint and believe that the mind can alter its perception of reality due to meditative training, the use of certain drugs, or as a result of mental illness.

Dave

22

Well...well...well. Look what you've done to this place!

by journey-on in

jw
friends

been awhile since i participated.

like what you've done to the place, simon.

seems a bit tamer than the old board though.. need the board's input on a sociology question and wonder if some of you might respond.. i can't tell you how many conversations i have had with witnesses and ex-witnesses where the subject doesn't inevitably come up about who is still 'in' and who has 'fallen away'.

PrimateDave

First of three am I. Both my brother (middle child) and I are out, though he left long before I did. I haven't been able to communicate with him since I left, so I can't speak for his motivations or even know if he has ever been on this (or the old) forum. It is too early to say what my sister will do since she is married to an "oldest child" who is definitely still in. She knows my position though not of my specific motivations for leaving the family religion. I did once find my brother's name on the web site of a Pentecostal church, so I assume that he and his wife are still Christian. Other than that he has avoided contact with the rest of the family, much to my parent's chagrin.

Dave

6

Started a Weight Loss challenge today!

by AK - Jeff in

a friend of mine and i are the only participants.

we weighed in this morning.

we are going to go three months, with the highest percentage of loss the winner.. the stakes?

PrimateDave

I highly recommend NOT starving yourself. You can stuff yourself with loads of fresh fruit and vegetables and not gain weight. You will feel better for it. Limit or avoid meat, eggs, milk, and refined foods and beverages that contain lots of syrup and sugar. Seriously, you have no reason whatsoever to go around hungry. I've been vegetarian since early January. I weigh 132 lbs. (I'm 5' 7"). My blood glucose is normal, and my blood pressure has dropped from 140/90 to 120/80. I have oatmeal or cream of wheat with cinnamon and raisins for breakfast. I eat bananas as a mid morning snack. Lunch is usually peanut butter on whole grain bread, but today I had homemade tamales. For dinner I made a black bean burger with fresh bakery bread, tomato, onion, mushroom, light mayo, chunky mild salsa and a side of potato slices. With a little planning you can eat well and lose weight. Set aside time for exercise too.

Dave

20

Relapse of an Atheist

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

i do not believe at all in the existence of the supernatural, etc.

i was a roman catholic in early childhood and catholicism is deeply rooted in my culture and community.

my happiest childhood memories are from that time, when life was normal and our family was not torn apart by jwism.

PrimateDave

I went to a couple of different churches in the past few years I have been out of the Org. One of them was a Catholic Church. I have been invited to a small Evangelical Church recently by some friends of mine. I can talk the Christian talk and certainly have no problems with socializing. I'm not sure I would like to be obligated into attending a Church on a regular basis. I don't foresee any changes in my non-theism in the future. I simply view this as being part of the local human community.

Dave

38

Closet apostate on the writing committee?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

i haven't seen any comments on this yet.... in the december 15, 2008 "study" version of the watchtower, in the last study article (the one to be covered march 1), paragraph 14 reads thusly in part:.

"...one january evening, the man asked his wife, jodi, what she knew of jehovah's witnesses.

she was a catholic, and she said that the only thing she linked to the witnesses to was "door-to-door preaching".

PrimateDave

No, I think you are reading more into this than there actually is. The Watchtower study article is basically "preaching to the choir" so to speak. Most Witnesses I know of would take it as a given that God's Holy Spirit will direct honest hearted individuals to click on the right link and learn the truth. If anything, I think it is simply telling the rank and file that there is no need to use the search engine since they already know the address to the official web site, and besides, they already know the "Truth."

Dave

15

Soon the Constitution of the United States was adopted to secure domestic hostility. Under the constitution the people enjoyed the right to keep bare arms.

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

meanwhile in europe, the enlightenment was a reasonable time.

voltaire invented electricity and also wrote a book called candy.. http://www.teacher-1-stop.co.uk/lessonplanner/bloomers.htm.

PrimateDave

lol! Thanks for the laughs! That was a funny list.

Dave