A warm welcome to Open mind and dawg. Hope you guys will stick around for a while and enjoy the show. I think this is a legacy of the contrarianism (did I just invent that word?) that Rutherford and Co. started way back in the '20s and '30s. Frankly, this is all I ever knew growing up. I had to explain to schoolmates and teachers why so many things were "against my religion". It was especially embarrassing because of the shear pettiness of the restrictions. I'm sure that more than one person thought that I was just being stuck up or antisocial on purpose for refusing to eat a piece of cake (for birthdays or holidays). It's just a stupid piece of cake for chrissake!! I once brought a mother's day card home because we made them in class. Well, my mom had to explain to me why we didn't "celebrate" mother's day! I thought I had done something nice, and I was told that it was "wrong". Stupid religion!
Dave
PrimateDave
JoinedPosts by PrimateDave
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16
Glass Clinking Still from Satan per latest QFR
by Open mind inmy wife and i have for many years thought that glass clinking was soon going to go the way of wind chimes and pinatas.
we were both blown away by the recent "questions from readers" saying that toasting is still the work of the devil and not for christians.. i even had an elder in my hall admit the logic didn't really hold up.
anyway, i thought it was definitely "food at the proper time" .
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PrimateDave
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25
Why do people believe in religion?
by sinis ini still have a hard time wrapping my brain around this.
for example why do so many believe in the bible when ample proof exists that negats its validaty?
why not believe in zeus or jupitor, etc.
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PrimateDave
We believe the things we are told as children. I know I did. We may or may not look for answers outside this "education" depending on how well this education satisfies our needs. I was dissatisfied as a Witness and it reached a critical point where I began to search for answers. Before public libraries, secular education, and lately the internet, how many people had access to the necessary information that could enable them to change their belief system? Even in the face of this free flow of information, religion will never die because it is a part of our social evolution.
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4
Aaaah yes ... what a privilege to be a Pie-On-Air..
by Frequent_Fader_Miles inyes people, it's that time of year again!
it's the time when all dubs are "encouraged" to pioneer.
in my neck of the woods, the streets are crawling with them, standing under the burning under the hot sun, trying to "make their hours" before heading off to work in the morning.
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PrimateDave
"standing under the burning under the hot sun"
So, are you in T&T? Greetings from PR! I've got no problems with the heat, per se. I just couldn't stomach having to wear a suit and tie in it.
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71
The original sin
by onacruse inthis is a question i've had for a long time.. according to the biblical account, adam and eve's sin was to eat fruit from the forbidden tree.. now, ordinarily, when we get caught doing something "wrong," we try to hide the "offending" member (the child tries to hide his hand that has the 'stolen' cookie; we hurriedly try to pull our pants back on when mom walks in unexpectedly while we're masturbating, etc.)..
so, if the "sin" of adam and eve was eating a forbidden fruit, then why wasn't their first impulse to hide their hands?
or to wipe off their mouths?
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PrimateDave
I have to agree with Leolaia. The meaning behind the original language version sounds to me like a joke, a bit of narrative humor, a pun. In my limited (bilingual) experience, I know that humor is one of the hardest things to translate. Yet another reason why even modern professional translations fail to convey the intended meaning, and why our cultural baggage gets in the way, too.
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33
What is your favorite Pagan Gods !
by 5go inskadi .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ska%c3%b0i.
isis.
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PrimateDave
Shinto sun goddess named Amaterasu.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Ckami
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11
Climb down admitting truth at this weeks bookstudy
by stillajwexelder in***km11/06p.7 revelationits grand climax at hand!
*** feb. 26 chap.
***km9/06p.3 adjustments for the book revelationits grand climax at hand!
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PrimateDave
The Proclaimers book does not specify what federal law was broken by the Watchtower Society.
My educated guess is that they were charged and imprisoned under the Sedition Act of 1918.
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From the Wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918)
***The Sedition Act of 1918 was an amendment to the Espionage Act of 1917 passed
at the urging of President Woodrow Wilson, who was concerned any widespread dissent in time
of war constituted a real threat to an American victory. Subversive activity had assisted in
overthrowing the Russian Czar in 1917, and contributed to the Easter Rising in Ireland in 1916.
Subversive activity in Great Britain was less successful.
The Sedition Act forbade Americans to use "disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language"
about the United States government, flag, or armed forces during war. The act also allowed the
Postmaster General to deny mail delivery to dissenters of government policy during wartime.
The Sedition Act was an attempt by the United States government to limit “freedom of speech,”
insomuch as “freedom of speech” related to the criticism of the government during war.
The Espionage Act made it a crime to help wartime enemies of the United States,
but the Sedition Act made it a crime to utter, print, write or publish any disloyal, profane,
scurrilous, or abusive language about the United States' form of government.
Socialist Eugene V. Debs was sentenced to 10 years in prison under this law. U.S. citizens
including members of the Industrial Workers of the World union were also imprisoned during World War I
for their anti-war dissent under the provisions of the Sedition Act. Anti-war protestors were arrested
by the hundreds as speaking out against the draft and the war was illegal under this law.
In his 1941 book Censorship 1917, James Mock noted that most U.S. Establishment newspapers
"showed no antipathy toward the act" and "far from opposing the measure, the leading papers seemed
actually to lead the movement in behalf of its speedy enactment."
The Sedition Act was repealed in 1921. Although the Sedition Act was upheld by the U.S. Supreme
Court in Schenck v. United States, most legal experts view the Sedition Act as being antithetical to the
letter and spirit of the United States Constitution, specifically the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights.***
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Hundreds of individuals with no connection to the Bible Students were tried and sentenced under this Act.
Of course, the Watchtower Society makes it seem as though they alone were singled out as if caught in
some big conspiracy against the Good News. Sometimes, telling only part of the truth is just as bad as telling a lie.
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7
ability to digest milk - prove of natural selection in humans?
by DannyBloem infound this scientific article:.
basically it is found that early europeans (7000 years ago) were mostly lacking the gene that makes it posible to digest milk.. modern europeans have this gene for 90%.
they argue that the gene has advantage for childhood survival and therefore has become dominant.. this proves natural section at work.
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PrimateDave
Very likely, yes. Another selection process involves the gene that causes Sickle Cell Anemia in bioregions with malarial parasites. Our evolution is an ongoing process. What will we be in another million years?
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2
Jack Finegan on the date of Jerusalem's Destruction
by Doug Mason ini am not fussed whether jerusalem was destroyed in 587 bce or a year later in 586 bce.
some are interested and as promised i have scanned some pages from a book by jack finegan which some might find interesting and useful.
but please do not raise issues with me -- i am the messenger, not the creator of the message.
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PrimateDave
Good stuff. Now let's hope some lurking active Witness reads it. ;)
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21
Deep thoughts: Is Jehovah omnipotent?
by Paralipomenon injehovah is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.
he is the god of gods and all powerful.
this is a fairly accepted teaching and one that no active witness would argue with.
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PrimateDave
For that matter, why does he need people to spread the Good News of His Kingdom by Christ. We were often told that the angels are envious of our privilege to talk about Jehovah and his purpose for the earth in this time of the end.
Aside from some very vague end-time prophesies in the Bible, which are not proof of inspiration in my opinion, there is no other evidence of the divine on the earth today. We are told that Jehovah is testing our heart condition: To reveal Himself or Jesus too fully would compromise The Bet he made with Satan.
Ironically, the angel that became Satan knew Jehovah face to face and still betrayed Him. Adam walked with Jehovah in the Garden of Eden and still sinned against Him. The Israelites witnessed the separation of the Red Sea and still lost faith in Him. I could go on.
Frankly, all I ever ask of Him is some evidence of the divine (not the demon folklore of the Watchtower Society) like what supposedly happened in the past so that I could reject Him to His face if I so choose.
So, why must Jehovah be so cruel and drawn out in His destructions? Because these were merely stories made to frighten the ignorant masses into obeying organized priesthoods (and Governing Bodies). What a way to earn a living, eh?
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4
God's Socio-Economic Plan Upon his Return
by Aequitus ini've heard a lot about how bad humans are at governing themselves and how we need god to do it for us, but not much about specifics on what life would be like under god's rule.
so let me concede for the moment that jesus is coming back immanently.
the wait is finally over, people are shocked (some anyway), but then they get used to life now that the planet is governed by god.
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PrimateDave
Well, if you'd been keeping up with the Spirit Directed Organization and Its Inspired Writing Department, you would know that the Paradise of Jehovah's Witnesses will be the perfect expression of 1950's American Suburbia with an open immigration policy to allow Americans, both survivors and resurrected, to see the wonderful costumes of foreign Witnesses.
Meanwhile, of course, American Witnesses will be required to wear slacks and button up shirts for men or modest knee length dresses for women. Houses will still be of the typical wood frame construction, though one must wonder if additional construction will be all that necessary right after Armageddon. Tractors and other heavy machinery will no doubt be left alone during Armageddon. The heavenly armies will also spare gasoline stations and other fuel depots. In fact, one must suppose that most of the industrial infrastructure has to remain intact, because modern humans don't know how to survive without it.
Once the Theocratic Society is established, Kingdom Coins will be minted as the official currency. It will be an eternal return to the Gold Standard. No more crappy alloy coins will circulate, only gold and silver.
God already established the perfect Law when he gave the Law Covenant to the Israelites. Not long after the end of Armageddon, the rules and regulations found in "Watchtower Publications of the Last Days" will be canonized as a new addition to the Bible. This new book will not represent a replacement for the Perfect Law, but it will help to clarify the law on such points as masturbation, blood fractions, and meeting attendance.
If you have any problem with the New System of Things, you can still talk to your local Body of Elders. If it is something that they can't answer, they will try to contact the New Service Department at the World Headquarters. If by some strange circumstance, they can't handle your request, someone on the New Princely Governing Body will put it on their weekly agenda. If even they don't know what to do about it, they will get in touch with one of the 144,000. Of course, they might just send it back to your local BoE and tell you to "wait on Jehovah."
Dave